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[Music]

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foreign

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foreign

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welcome back to uh the second day in a

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row here on the channel

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um I'm really really looking forward to

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this conversation uh this is somebody

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who I've been following for many years

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now

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um and I mean his research and his work

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is is almost second to none so let's

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jump straight into it guys please uh let

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me welcome

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David Marla David how are you doing

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Vinnie good to see you great to be here

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I really appreciate it thank you so much

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for agreeing to do this

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now look you mentioned we'll just saying

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you mentioned this is actually going to

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be your last interview for the year yes

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uh I've been very busy on multiple uh

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UFO related projects in addition a

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number of historical uh collections have

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uh recently come into my possession I

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have about a 50 to 60 boxes of

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historical material which I just

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recently acquired from Antonio's who was

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a very prominent researcher when I first

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got involved back in 1990 on the UFO

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subject and Antonio had a wealth of

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historical materials about three four

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years ago prior to covid I uh acquired

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his case files but he had an incredible

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collection of foreign much of it being

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uh South American countries uh UFO

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information going back to the 1950s and

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so it was a rare treasure Trove and I

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had an opportunity to acquire his

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collection and was out there last month

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actually uh and then I was there last

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week uh presenting to the local mufon

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chapter in the feedback greater Phoenix

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Arizona area so between lectures I have

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scheduled this year and collections

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plural that I'll be acquiring over the

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course of this year in addition to my

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career which I as I always tell people

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as you know Vinnie I don't do this for a

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living I actually have a career a day

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job and of course my family you know we

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all have to try to make time for our

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families as well so uh I just decided

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that the podcasts were taking up too

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much of my time but obviously I wanted

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to afford you the opportunity for us to

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talk

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and present some information for your

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audience wow that means so much thank

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you I'm really honored

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um yeah so I think what we'll do is if

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we start off I think you've got a little

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presentation that you were going to

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share so if we can bring that up it's I

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can't see it on my screen at the moment

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so if you're able to share it let me uh

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pull that up for you right now thank you

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I can share my screen yep uh just a

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quick message to everyone in the live

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chat thank you so much for being here if

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you guys have any questions at all pop

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them in capital letters

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um I will save them to either a relevant

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point in the interview or towards the

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end but all questions are welcome so

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right here we go let's

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ah look at that perfect oh okay good I

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was hoping you would give me an

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affirmative that you could see that so

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uh so just wanted to mention that uh you

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I did publish my book back in 2013 on

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triangular UFOs namely because they were

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so prevalent in the UFO Reporting at the

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time and ironically enough still today

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here in 2022 uh there's a a prevalence

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of these triangular UFO or now UAP

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reports that we're hearing about and at

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the time I had a growing collection of

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historical materials and based on the

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data set I had at the time and that was

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in 2012 I started putting pen to paper

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and trying to catalog some of the more

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unique aspects of the Triangular UFO

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phenomenon and for those that have read

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my book for those that haven't uh I'm

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not going to go through all of these in

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the interest of time but uh much like

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Lou Elizondo talks about the observables

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when he was with atip uh these were my

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quote unquote observables that I put

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together based on the historical data

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looking at triangular UF fo reports

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worldwide and many of these go back to

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the 1940s and so the primary

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characteristics are those that are more

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prevalent in the data

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secondary characteristics that you can

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see listed there are ones that are

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repeated but with less frequency than

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the primary characteristics so uh I know

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this will be on YouTube so people can

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always pause and freeze frame that and

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print that if they'd like to uh you know

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dissect that or dive into that but based

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on the information that I gathered this

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was kind of the working profile I put

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together

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interestingly enough during covid on

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November 3rd the date of our

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presidential election uh there was

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obviously a heightened state of anxiety

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everyone wanting to see who was going to

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be the next president I was anxious

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about that but I was also anxious

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because the file cabinets you see on the

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left there were delivered and the ones

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behind me uh on Election Day and this is

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the largest historical collection single

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collection of historical UFO case files

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in the world these are the nightcap Case

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Files uh don Kehoe Richard Hall's case

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File collection going back to the 50s Dr

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J Allen Heinz kufos or Center for UFO

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study case files and also a lesser-known

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group CSI New York not the TV show but

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civilian saucer intelligence of New York

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uh very early 1950s mid-1950s

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organization that started cataloging

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UFO sighting reports and so there are

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literally thousands of case files in all

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of these file cabinets in addition to

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the Case Files we also have audio

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recordings which I've digitized I think

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I've digitized over 275 reel-to-reel

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recordings some dating back as early as

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1957 and those also contain UFO citing

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reports and interviews with Witnesses

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and so as I always like to say there's a

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lot of historical data which for those

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that watch the house hearing on uaps

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last week the one thing that was

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completely devoid of the discussion was

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the history of this phenomenon and I was

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really surprised I know a lot of people

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thought that they were feigning

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ignorance when the intelligence

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representatives were asked about

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Malmstrom Air Force Base and UFOs I

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don't think they were feigning ignorance

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I don't think that they have a a firm

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working knowledge of the history of UFOs

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and uaps and so I feel it's incumbent

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upon myself and other historians on this

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subject worldwide to really paint a

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clear picture that is fact-based based

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on the data not our personal beliefs and

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try to educate the general public which

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admittedly now is has taken this into

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the mainstream and so looking at some of

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those historical cases though I think we

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also have to dispel some of the

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misinformation or disinformation that's

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out there I know when people talk about

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triangular UFOs inevitably the tr-3b

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comes up in discussion and I refer to

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this lovingly as a pervasive Urban myth

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the tr-3b ultimately goes back to the

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testimony of one individual Mr Edgar

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Fouche who unfortunately passed away

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back in 2017. he claims he worked at

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Area 51 and that these triangles were

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back engineered from purported recovered

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ET technology in the in the 1980s and

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1990s and I don't question the fact that

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he worked at Area 51 there has been some

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documentation floating out there that

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tends to support he did work there but

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as I always like to say just because he

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worked there it does not automatically

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lend Credence to this story of the tr-3b

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and again there's strong belief systems

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on both sides of the fence as it relates

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to that the only thing I like to say is

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if the tr-3b exists let's see some

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official documentation let's find other

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informational sources other than one

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individual and even if you believe in

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the tr-3b and that it was manufactured

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in the 1980s 1990s it doesn't explain

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some of the historical cases that we

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have which I'll share with you and your

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audience today uh something else though

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that has uh clouded the Triangular UFO

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subject in my opinion are patents such

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as this one

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this was one for a quote triangular

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spacecraft unquote it was filed back in

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2004. notice I have underlined in red

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published on on in 2006 but I I spoke

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with a friend of mine who's actually a

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researcher in the UFO field he worked at

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the U.S patent office for many years

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specifically in the area of Aviation

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aeronautic patents and he looked into

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this and he stated that the patent for

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this particular device was never issued

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so notice it says published and at the

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bottom there of the screen you can also

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see publication number uh and compare

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that to this one which has also been out

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there on the internet Salvatore pis is a

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well-known aerospace engineer he did

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file this in 2016 and in fact in this

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particular case unlike the previous one

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a patent was issued in 2018. but again

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even if a patent was issued in 2018 it

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does not necessarily support the fact

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that we have a full-scale working model

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of this device uh the patent is only a

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proof of concept it does not necessarily

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have to have a working model to get a

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patent uh if you research patent law and

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you talk to my friend who worked at the

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patent office he will tell you if you

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don't have a working model you at least

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have to have a detailed blueprint that

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is based in science that shows evidence

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that this is a true proof of concept

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that it could be developed uh given the

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required resources for such a patent

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um and then we also have statements like

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this I I was on a History Channel uh

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television segment uh for the

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unidentified series back in 2020 uh

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prior to receiving these case files and

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uh researcher had stated that from the

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1970s onwards you get this increasing

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trend of people let's see giant

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triangular objects or wedge-shaped

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objects and he added that the easiest

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place to look for an answer is popular

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culture he then went on to state that

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the film he remembered seeing from

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childhood where he saw this triangular

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shape or wed shaped object was the first

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Star Wars film and he stated it was

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released in 1977 which it was and he

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described about this huge Imperial Star

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Destroyer coming into view and he

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basically goes on to suggest that this

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is the same period of time people start

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that's the the operative word start

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seeing these huge dark triangular shaped

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objects with pulsing lights well the

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fact is in going through these Case

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Files which I've been reviewing for the

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last couple years now uh you find

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evidence of earlier reports of triangles

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this is Hazleton Pennsylvania November

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12 1957 and I I love when I I stumbled

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across headlines like this reports

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citing flying triangle over City and it

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goes beyond Vinnie just a triangular

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shape if you notice the underlying

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segments there it resembled a triangle

276
00:11:18,290 --> 00:11:15,959
with a light at Each corner which

277
00:11:22,009 --> 00:11:18,300
hovered and then all of a sudden it

278
00:11:24,110 --> 00:11:22,019
stopped dead hovered started to spin in

279
00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:24,120
other words made a flat turn and it

280
00:11:29,030 --> 00:11:25,680
started to go back in the direction from

281
00:11:31,069 --> 00:11:29,040
which it originated so the boxes at the

282
00:11:33,410 --> 00:11:31,079
top there with the red lettering these

283
00:11:35,449 --> 00:11:33,420
are the uh characteristics that I

284
00:11:37,670 --> 00:11:35,459
outline in my book that are now

285
00:11:40,430 --> 00:11:37,680
exemplified in these quote unquote new

286
00:11:44,150 --> 00:11:40,440
old cases that I've stumbled across that

287
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:44,160
was in 1957 but we could look at 1960 a

288
00:11:49,190 --> 00:11:46,079
young girl sketched this object with

289
00:11:53,090 --> 00:11:49,200
crayon and this report was sent to nycap

290
00:11:55,370 --> 00:11:53,100
in 1960 and it was in Maine and they not

291
00:11:57,949 --> 00:11:55,380
only observed one triangle they observed

292
00:11:59,629 --> 00:11:57,959
five triangles moving about in the sky

293
00:12:01,150 --> 00:11:59,639
and you can see some of the highlighted

294
00:12:04,009 --> 00:12:01,160
areas there some of the characteristics

295
00:12:06,350 --> 00:12:04,019
they also viewed this through binoculars

296
00:12:08,210 --> 00:12:06,360
many of these historic cases were with

297
00:12:10,430 --> 00:12:08,220
the aided eye not just with the naked

298
00:12:12,829 --> 00:12:10,440
eye which is important obviously they

299
00:12:14,470 --> 00:12:12,839
can glean a lot of additional detail uh

300
00:12:18,350 --> 00:12:14,480
in viewing these things through

301
00:12:20,509 --> 00:12:18,360
binoculars but this is a case from 1960

302
00:12:22,310 --> 00:12:20,519
another case from 1960 which is in my

303
00:12:24,050 --> 00:12:22,320
book for those that have read it I found

304
00:12:25,730 --> 00:12:24,060
the original news clipping though not

305
00:12:28,069 --> 00:12:25,740
just a scan copy but I found the

306
00:12:29,389 --> 00:12:28,079
original in the nicap case files and

307
00:12:30,769 --> 00:12:29,399
this one demonstrated all the

308
00:12:32,990 --> 00:12:30,779
characteristics you see on the right

309
00:12:36,170 --> 00:12:33,000
side Silent Flight slow speed ability to

310
00:12:38,990 --> 00:12:36,180
hover rapid acceleration Etc again

311
00:12:40,569 --> 00:12:39,000
flying triangle uh is the the title in

312
00:12:43,310 --> 00:12:40,579
the article there

313
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:43,320
1965 I was really intrigued by this one

314
00:12:48,470 --> 00:12:45,480
Vinnie uh this was over the Puget Sound

315
00:12:51,230 --> 00:12:48,480
Naval Shipyard in Washington State uh we

316
00:12:53,389 --> 00:12:51,240
had a silent low-flying triangle that

317
00:12:56,269 --> 00:12:53,399
was seen by an individual that was

318
00:12:58,370 --> 00:12:56,279
working at the Naval Shipyard there were

319
00:13:00,530 --> 00:12:58,380
no lights on this particular triangle

320
00:13:02,509 --> 00:13:00,540
but the ship's lights the naval ship

321
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:02,519
lights were reflecting on the underside

322
00:13:08,090 --> 00:13:05,839
as it very silently flew over overhead

323
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:08,100
and what I found particularly

324
00:13:11,750 --> 00:13:10,260
interesting I started looking at the

325
00:13:15,230 --> 00:13:11,760
Puget Sound Naval Shipyard history

326
00:13:15,949 --> 00:13:15,240
specific to 1965 and this is what I

327
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:15,959
found

328
00:13:20,210 --> 00:13:17,760
this might be another connection to

329
00:13:23,750 --> 00:13:20,220
nuclear weapons nuclear storage and

330
00:13:25,069 --> 00:13:23,760
nuclear devices as it relates to UFOs 65

331
00:13:28,129 --> 00:13:25,079
was the first year they started

332
00:13:30,050 --> 00:13:28,139
repairing nuclear-powered vessels so I

333
00:13:31,730 --> 00:13:30,060
don't know if there's a correlation

334
00:13:33,710 --> 00:13:31,740
there but I thought that that was an

335
00:13:35,210 --> 00:13:33,720
intriguing little bit of history that it

336
00:13:36,710 --> 00:13:35,220
just happened to coincide with the first

337
00:13:39,069 --> 00:13:36,720
year that they started working on

338
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:39,079
nuclear-powered Naval vessels

339
00:13:44,329 --> 00:13:41,519
1966 we had sightings up in British

340
00:13:45,889 --> 00:13:44,339
Columbia Canada uh not just one triangle

341
00:13:47,449 --> 00:13:45,899
but as you see there are two triangular

342
00:13:49,610 --> 00:13:47,459
objects which for those that have read

343
00:13:52,730 --> 00:13:49,620
my book quite often these objects will

344
00:13:54,350 --> 00:13:52,740
fly in pairs or groups and again it's

345
00:13:57,769 --> 00:13:54,360
very interesting to see these newspaper

346
00:14:00,530 --> 00:13:57,779
headlines from the 1960s describing this

347
00:14:03,710 --> 00:14:00,540
and then we also have uh this particular

348
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:03,720
report uh from New Hampshire in the mid

349
00:14:09,650 --> 00:14:06,959
uh towards fall of 1966 triangular

350
00:14:11,269 --> 00:14:09,660
object lights at each point and you can

351
00:14:13,310 --> 00:14:11,279
see here the witness on The nightcap

352
00:14:16,430 --> 00:14:13,320
Report Form said definitely triangular

353
00:14:18,290 --> 00:14:16,440
shaped it just looked black and went on

354
00:14:20,689 --> 00:14:18,300
to State it just cruised slowly like a

355
00:14:22,430 --> 00:14:20,699
very slow moving aircraft and in this

356
00:14:25,310 --> 00:14:22,440
particular case they said it made a

357
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:25,320
humming sound which some witnesses in

358
00:14:31,189 --> 00:14:28,800
the modern reports in absence of no

359
00:14:35,090 --> 00:14:31,199
sound they will describe a buzzing or a

360
00:14:38,210 --> 00:14:35,100
humming sound but this is in 1966. later

361
00:14:40,730 --> 00:14:38,220
in 66 uh no exact date given we have

362
00:14:42,710 --> 00:14:40,740
this triangular object again light at

363
00:14:44,449 --> 00:14:42,720
each point this one was relatively small

364
00:14:47,629 --> 00:14:44,459
though if you notice the link there 25

365
00:14:49,310 --> 00:14:47,639
feet and the width 20 feet people uh

366
00:14:51,590 --> 00:14:49,320
often labor under the idea that these

367
00:14:54,110 --> 00:14:51,600
are all massive objects of course we

368
00:14:55,910 --> 00:14:54,120
have the bent Waters incident where they

369
00:14:57,710 --> 00:14:55,920
described a triangular object but it was

370
00:15:00,170 --> 00:14:57,720
relatively small

371
00:15:02,090 --> 00:15:00,180
so there are some accounts of small

372
00:15:05,030 --> 00:15:02,100
triangles in addition to these massive

373
00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:05,040
300 foot in length uh triangular

374
00:15:11,569 --> 00:15:08,579
platforms another one from 67 this is uh

375
00:15:14,629 --> 00:15:11,579
again from the nicap report forms uh we

376
00:15:16,850 --> 00:15:14,639
have this object uh no sound was uh

377
00:15:19,610 --> 00:15:16,860
detected but what was interesting about

378
00:15:21,410 --> 00:15:19,620
this one Vinnie is the witness as you

379
00:15:24,110 --> 00:15:21,420
can see at the bottom there saw

380
00:15:27,050 --> 00:15:24,120
something leave the Triangular object

381
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:27,060
and then return to it and this is very

382
00:15:32,150 --> 00:15:28,800
reminiscent of the Belgian wave in other

383
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:32,160
cases I have on file sure where objects

384
00:15:37,790 --> 00:15:34,920
or lights detach and then go back to the

385
00:15:40,490 --> 00:15:37,800
parent object and again it's interesting

386
00:15:42,590 --> 00:15:40,500
to see this being reported in 1967 long

387
00:15:45,110 --> 00:15:42,600
before the Belgian wave

388
00:15:46,490 --> 00:15:45,120
uh one that was close to home I lived in

389
00:15:48,650 --> 00:15:46,500
Southern Illinois at the time very close

390
00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:48,660
to Scott Air Force Base and of course I

391
00:15:52,970 --> 00:15:50,699
investigated the the very uh popular

392
00:15:55,129 --> 00:15:52,980
January 5th 2000 case which is in the

393
00:15:58,370 --> 00:15:55,139
first two chapters of my book

394
00:16:01,129 --> 00:15:58,380
um ironically enough in 2005 I acquired

395
00:16:03,290 --> 00:16:01,139
another collection from the UFO study

396
00:16:04,730 --> 00:16:03,300
group of Greater St Louis and for those

397
00:16:07,370 --> 00:16:04,740
that don't know this was actually the

398
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:07,380
precursor to move on uh the founding

399
00:16:11,509 --> 00:16:09,000
members of mufon were part of this

400
00:16:13,610 --> 00:16:11,519
organization and in addition to news

401
00:16:16,129 --> 00:16:13,620
clippings and books and journals I

402
00:16:17,509 --> 00:16:16,139
acquired all of their case files in

403
00:16:20,689 --> 00:16:17,519
going through them as you can imagine

404
00:16:22,430 --> 00:16:20,699
this sketch caught my eye on this

405
00:16:24,949 --> 00:16:22,440
particular triangular or this particular

406
00:16:27,470 --> 00:16:24,959
UFO report namely this triangle with

407
00:16:30,710 --> 00:16:27,480
Windows on the side interestingly enough

408
00:16:33,530 --> 00:16:30,720
this object was cited within a half mile

409
00:16:35,329 --> 00:16:33,540
of the flight path of the triangle case

410
00:16:38,329 --> 00:16:35,339
that I investigated from January 5th

411
00:16:40,910 --> 00:16:38,339
2000. so the same area very close to the

412
00:16:44,449 --> 00:16:40,920
same Air Force Base uh but a completely

413
00:16:47,329 --> 00:16:44,459
silent triangular platform form I did an

414
00:16:50,269 --> 00:16:47,339
interview uh with the witness I tracked

415
00:16:51,949 --> 00:16:50,279
him down about 40 years later and uh

416
00:16:55,129 --> 00:16:51,959
conducted an on-camera interview with

417
00:16:58,249 --> 00:16:55,139
him and he described it very uniquely he

418
00:17:01,069 --> 00:16:58,259
said the object always seemed to be to

419
00:17:03,829 --> 00:17:01,079
be looking like the the shape of a slice

420
00:17:06,529 --> 00:17:03,839
of pie he said it was triangular it had

421
00:17:08,809 --> 00:17:06,539
thickness to it and it just took on that

422
00:17:10,210 --> 00:17:08,819
appearance like a slice of pie which I

423
00:17:12,409 --> 00:17:10,220
thought was an interesting description

424
00:17:13,850 --> 00:17:12,419
absolutely and then this is what it

425
00:17:16,010 --> 00:17:13,860
looked like it was actually a dark

426
00:17:19,370 --> 00:17:16,020
triangle with these illuminated

427
00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:19,380
rectangular Square Windows on the side

428
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:21,660
and then for those that think these

429
00:17:26,029 --> 00:17:23,640
massive triangles with the the points of

430
00:17:27,770 --> 00:17:26,039
light are just uh relatively modern

431
00:17:30,529 --> 00:17:27,780
reports this is from Indianapolis

432
00:17:31,850 --> 00:17:30,539
Indiana in 1969 and you can see the the

433
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:31,860
witness here States the lights

434
00:17:36,169 --> 00:17:33,780
definitely were affixed to the points of

435
00:17:37,669 --> 00:17:36,179
the triangle and the witness goes on to

436
00:17:39,590 --> 00:17:37,679
State and most Strangely I did not even

437
00:17:41,330 --> 00:17:39,600
hear a suggestion of a sound at all and

438
00:17:43,789 --> 00:17:41,340
he went on to add and I do have normal

439
00:17:47,630 --> 00:17:43,799
hearing and then this is the sketch he

440
00:17:49,850 --> 00:17:47,640
provided in 1969. wow and again this

441
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:49,860
could be a modern report that we

442
00:17:53,390 --> 00:17:51,360
received yesterday from someone either

443
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:53,400
in the UK or United States or elsewhere

444
00:17:59,390 --> 00:17:56,160
but this is 1969 we have reports of

445
00:18:01,070 --> 00:17:59,400
these triangles being being documented

446
00:18:04,130 --> 00:18:01,080
um and then one of the most famous cases

447
00:18:06,230 --> 00:18:04,140
uh actually the first uh flap or

448
00:18:08,750 --> 00:18:06,240
consistent series of sightings in a

449
00:18:10,510 --> 00:18:08,760
fairly uh confined geographic area was

450
00:18:13,070 --> 00:18:10,520
in Lumberton North Carolina

451
00:18:17,150 --> 00:18:13,080
1975. again I touched on this in my book

452
00:18:19,250 --> 00:18:17,160
this was a an artist's uh rendition of

453
00:18:21,049 --> 00:18:19,260
the sighting uh Dale Hendrickson who

454
00:18:23,390 --> 00:18:21,059
actually does work on The Simpsons

455
00:18:25,370 --> 00:18:23,400
animated TV series

456
00:18:26,930 --> 00:18:25,380
um he created this for for my friend and

457
00:18:29,270 --> 00:18:26,940
colleague Lee Spiegel who you can see

458
00:18:31,130 --> 00:18:29,280
pictured there in the upper Center uh

459
00:18:33,169 --> 00:18:31,140
frame he was sent down to Lumberton to

460
00:18:35,990 --> 00:18:33,179
interview police officers that were

461
00:18:37,789 --> 00:18:36,000
reporting this triangular UFO and Dr

462
00:18:40,549 --> 00:18:37,799
heineck requested that he go down and

463
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:40,559
interview them and as he was standing in

464
00:18:44,270 --> 00:18:42,299
this clearing which you see depicted in

465
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:44,280
the artwork there the officers were

466
00:18:47,690 --> 00:18:45,600
showing him where they had seen a

467
00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:47,700
triangle the night before and they had

468
00:18:51,529 --> 00:18:49,860
stated that it started as a light off

469
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:51,539
above the tree line

470
00:18:55,970 --> 00:18:53,940
and as they're describing it a light

471
00:18:58,130 --> 00:18:55,980
appears over the tree line and

472
00:19:00,409 --> 00:18:58,140
essentially what they saw the night

473
00:19:02,570 --> 00:19:00,419
before played out while Lee was standing

474
00:19:04,430 --> 00:19:02,580
right there and as the triangle came

475
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:04,440
overhead Lee and all these police

476
00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:06,720
officers suddenly saw this beam of Light

477
00:19:11,150 --> 00:19:08,580
Shine Down from this completely silent

478
00:19:12,710 --> 00:19:11,160
triangular platform multiple police

479
00:19:14,810 --> 00:19:12,720
officers not just the ones you see

480
00:19:16,669 --> 00:19:14,820
pictured here but additional police

481
00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:16,679
officers in and around Lumberton North

482
00:19:21,710 --> 00:19:19,140
Carolina reported this I do have the

483
00:19:24,169 --> 00:19:21,720
original kufos case file on this it's

484
00:19:26,090 --> 00:19:24,179
about two inches thick and in one

485
00:19:28,190 --> 00:19:26,100
particular case I found it extremely

486
00:19:30,049 --> 00:19:28,200
interesting one of the police officers

487
00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:30,059
was sitting in his squad car by himself

488
00:19:36,770 --> 00:19:32,760
and suddenly noticed an object hovering

489
00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:36,780
over his vehicle he got out stood up the

490
00:19:41,270 --> 00:19:38,820
object shown a spotlight down much like

491
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:41,280
you see here then the object started to

492
00:19:46,190 --> 00:19:43,440
move off the officer got in his squad

493
00:19:49,370 --> 00:19:46,200
car started chasing the object and was

494
00:19:53,390 --> 00:19:49,380
able to clock the UFO with his radar gun

495
00:19:55,250 --> 00:19:53,400
at moving at 200 miles per hour wow so

496
00:19:56,570 --> 00:19:55,260
oftentimes we hear about military radar

497
00:20:00,590 --> 00:19:56,580
it's not often we hear about police

498
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:00,600
radar a UFO let alone a triangular UFO

499
00:20:05,630 --> 00:20:03,360
in 1975. but this was what was really

500
00:20:07,549 --> 00:20:05,640
unique about this and I it's almost

501
00:20:09,169 --> 00:20:07,559
prophetic for those that have read my

502
00:20:10,909 --> 00:20:09,179
book and looked at the characteristics I

503
00:20:12,830 --> 00:20:10,919
outlined in this letter from December

504
00:20:14,029 --> 00:20:12,840
and Dr heineck's personal files which I

505
00:20:15,890 --> 00:20:14,039
have here

506
00:20:18,169 --> 00:20:15,900
he States in reference to the Lumberton

507
00:20:20,990 --> 00:20:18,179
case that there were a number of factors

508
00:20:22,789 --> 00:20:21,000
that uh he thought made these uh

509
00:20:24,649 --> 00:20:22,799
sightings genuinely unexplained

510
00:20:27,409 --> 00:20:24,659
phenomenon namely that they were

511
00:20:29,450 --> 00:20:27,419
v-shaped or Delta shaped objects absence

512
00:20:31,310 --> 00:20:29,460
of noise ability of the object to hover

513
00:20:33,890 --> 00:20:31,320
for extended periods at low altitudes

514
00:20:36,169 --> 00:20:33,900
ability of object to execute flat as

515
00:20:37,310 --> 00:20:36,179
opposed to banked turns and the object's

516
00:20:39,529 --> 00:20:37,320
seen at Treetop level and even

517
00:20:41,630 --> 00:20:39,539
descending below Treetop level several

518
00:20:43,549 --> 00:20:41,640
times and of course the lighting

519
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:43,559
configurations not being compatible with

520
00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:47,039
conventional uh Aviation lights so it's

521
00:20:50,210 --> 00:20:48,120
interesting because those

522
00:20:53,630 --> 00:20:50,220
characteristics I incorporated into my

523
00:20:55,130 --> 00:20:53,640
book so Dr heineck was very prophetic in

524
00:20:56,990 --> 00:20:55,140
documenting these characteristics

525
00:20:59,210 --> 00:20:57,000
because as I continue to gather more

526
00:21:01,970 --> 00:20:59,220
data they tended to play out time and

527
00:21:03,110 --> 00:21:01,980
time again and then just real briefly I

528
00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:03,120
don't want to dwell too long on the

529
00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:04,260
slides

530
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:05,640
um two years later we had another

531
00:21:09,890 --> 00:21:07,860
sighting by multiple police officers in

532
00:21:11,990 --> 00:21:09,900
and around Memphis Tennessee describing

533
00:21:14,390 --> 00:21:12,000
as you can see there a triangular shaped

534
00:21:17,330 --> 00:21:14,400
object the gentleman that you see there

535
00:21:18,770 --> 00:21:17,340
in the color photo is Officer Todd I've

536
00:21:20,750 --> 00:21:18,780
been trying to get in touch with him but

537
00:21:22,130 --> 00:21:20,760
have been thus far unsuccessful but I'm

538
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:22,140
hoping to secure an interview with him

539
00:21:26,149 --> 00:21:24,480
because he has talked publicly and there

540
00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:26,159
are some interviews on YouTube where you

541
00:21:30,890 --> 00:21:28,260
can hear him describing this triangle

542
00:21:31,730 --> 00:21:30,900
that could hover accelerate

543
00:21:34,250 --> 00:21:31,740
um

544
00:21:36,110 --> 00:21:34,260
completely silent low altitude flight

545
00:21:38,870 --> 00:21:36,120
all the characteristics that that we're

546
00:21:40,370 --> 00:21:38,880
familiar with with the modern reports so

547
00:21:41,690 --> 00:21:40,380
but that's just some of the things I

548
00:21:44,390 --> 00:21:41,700
wanted to share that this is just a

549
00:21:48,169 --> 00:21:44,400
portion of the uh lecture that I'm

550
00:21:50,990 --> 00:21:48,179
actually giving currently uh across the

551
00:21:52,970 --> 00:21:51,000
country uh that I started last year and

552
00:21:55,250 --> 00:21:52,980
so trying to engage as I mentioned you

553
00:21:56,690 --> 00:21:55,260
if any before we went on air that you

554
00:21:58,310 --> 00:21:56,700
know in absence of people coming to the

555
00:22:00,710 --> 00:21:58,320
archives it's my way of being able to

556
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:00,720
share some of the archives with them and

557
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:02,880
as I often state it doesn't matter what

558
00:22:06,350 --> 00:22:04,799
I personally believe it's Irrelevant in

559
00:22:08,930 --> 00:22:06,360
the grand scheme of things

560
00:22:10,430 --> 00:22:08,940
what matters is the data and these are

561
00:22:11,770 --> 00:22:10,440
the historical records these are the

562
00:22:14,029 --> 00:22:11,780
contemporaneous reports we have

563
00:22:16,250 --> 00:22:14,039
absolutely I agree I mean I had a

564
00:22:17,810 --> 00:22:16,260
message today just now you've said that

565
00:22:19,850 --> 00:22:17,820
about someone saying do you believe this

566
00:22:22,669 --> 00:22:19,860
and my answer straight away is it's not

567
00:22:23,930 --> 00:22:22,679
about my belief right why what you do as

568
00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:23,940
a researcher is follow the information

569
00:22:28,250 --> 00:22:26,640
and data you may not like the result but

570
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:28,260
that is just the process that you have

571
00:22:31,730 --> 00:22:30,240
to go through so I completely agree I

572
00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:31,740
mean we have to divorce our personal

573
00:22:36,110 --> 00:22:34,440
beliefs and biases yeah when we look at

574
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:36,120
this I mean we truly have to be like a

575
00:22:42,230 --> 00:22:39,000
juror uh we have to be objective and try

576
00:22:45,350 --> 00:22:42,240
to weigh the evidence and I can't ignore

577
00:22:47,870 --> 00:22:45,360
uh and by the way uh the total amount of

578
00:22:50,390 --> 00:22:47,880
triangle reports I found looking from 47

579
00:22:54,169 --> 00:22:50,400
to 77 respectively in these Case Files

580
00:22:56,330 --> 00:22:54,179
was over 102. so this is just a sample

581
00:22:58,549 --> 00:22:56,340
of the the case files that I have found

582
00:23:00,830 --> 00:22:58,559
in which I do have in my lecture that

583
00:23:02,870 --> 00:23:00,840
I'm giving currently across the country

584
00:23:04,730 --> 00:23:02,880
fantastic so would you say that you

585
00:23:06,289 --> 00:23:04,740
learned a lot of your skills as far as

586
00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:06,299
the research it goes during your time

587
00:23:10,669 --> 00:23:07,860
with mufon and things like that

588
00:23:12,830 --> 00:23:10,679
absolutely uh I I cut my teeth as an

589
00:23:15,289 --> 00:23:12,840
investigator with mufon I always had an

590
00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:15,299
interest since an early age and had

591
00:23:21,710 --> 00:23:17,760
never obviously conducted investigations

592
00:23:24,169 --> 00:23:21,720
into anything let alone UFOs uh and so I

593
00:23:26,270 --> 00:23:24,179
think I was 21 when I started at mufon

594
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:26,280
and uh you know it's really a great

595
00:23:30,770 --> 00:23:28,559
Proving Ground to you know hone your

596
00:23:32,930 --> 00:23:30,780
skills learn basic techniques of

597
00:23:34,669 --> 00:23:32,940
investigation and one of the great

598
00:23:36,230 --> 00:23:34,679
Pleasures I have any in addition to

599
00:23:39,169 --> 00:23:36,240
doing podcasts like this with yourself

600
00:23:41,330 --> 00:23:39,179
and your audience uh is being able to go

601
00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:41,340
around I mentioned last week and I was

602
00:23:45,470 --> 00:23:43,020
in Phoenix presenting to the move on

603
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:45,480
group there uh within two or three weeks

604
00:23:49,549 --> 00:23:47,400
I'll be up in Denver Colorado presenting

605
00:23:51,830 --> 00:23:49,559
to the mufon group I love being able to

606
00:23:53,269 --> 00:23:51,840
travel the country because I don't have

607
00:23:55,610 --> 00:23:53,279
all the answers I don't have all the

608
00:23:57,950 --> 00:23:55,620
data it's great to engage with these

609
00:24:00,110 --> 00:23:57,960
mufon investigators who say David I just

610
00:24:01,730 --> 00:24:00,120
had a triangle case about two months ago

611
00:24:03,769 --> 00:24:01,740
I'd love to share the information with

612
00:24:05,390 --> 00:24:03,779
you and you know we all share

613
00:24:07,610 --> 00:24:05,400
information we all have our own little

614
00:24:09,710 --> 00:24:07,620
data sets we're sitting on and I always

615
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:09,720
think in life as well as ufology you

616
00:24:13,010 --> 00:24:11,159
know we're all teachers and we're all

617
00:24:15,649 --> 00:24:13,020
students we can learn but we can also

618
00:24:19,430 --> 00:24:15,659
teach and so being able just to network

619
00:24:22,610 --> 00:24:19,440
as we do uh it's just the best way I

620
00:24:24,769 --> 00:24:22,620
think to really try to get all this data

621
00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:24,779
gathered and the more data sets we have

622
00:24:27,230 --> 00:24:26,100
I think the better Clarity we're going

623
00:24:29,450 --> 00:24:27,240
to have as far as what we're dealing

624
00:24:30,890 --> 00:24:29,460
with absolutely yeah I mean I've been

625
00:24:33,049 --> 00:24:30,900
lucky enough myself to make a lot of

626
00:24:35,390 --> 00:24:33,059
connections in the past in the past year

627
00:24:37,370 --> 00:24:35,400
and now it's just the amount of

628
00:24:39,529 --> 00:24:37,380
knowledge that I've been privy to

629
00:24:41,750 --> 00:24:39,539
discuss I think we have a lot of mutual

630
00:24:44,149 --> 00:24:41,760
friends and colleagues in this field yes

631
00:24:45,890 --> 00:24:44,159
absolutely absolutely now I mean just

632
00:24:47,990 --> 00:24:45,900
looking behind you I can see just how

633
00:24:50,510 --> 00:24:48,000
amazing your research room looks I'd

634
00:24:52,070 --> 00:24:50,520
love to to to go one day but could you

635
00:24:53,390 --> 00:24:52,080
just give us some of the names of a few

636
00:24:54,830 --> 00:24:53,400
people that we might have heard of that

637
00:24:57,049 --> 00:24:54,840
have actually visited and done work

638
00:24:58,850 --> 00:24:57,059
there with you uh absolutely well Barry

639
00:25:00,470 --> 00:24:58,860
Greenwood Jan Aldridge who are two of

640
00:25:02,769 --> 00:25:00,480
the leading historians of course they're

641
00:25:05,990 --> 00:25:02,779
my mentors to be quite honest with you

642
00:25:07,669 --> 00:25:06,000
and I'm happy to say I I respected their

643
00:25:09,110 --> 00:25:07,679
work when I first got involved in UFOs

644
00:25:11,570 --> 00:25:09,120
and now I'm happy to say they're dear

645
00:25:14,210 --> 00:25:11,580
friends and colleagues my wife and I had

646
00:25:17,450 --> 00:25:14,220
them stay with us for two weeks

647
00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,460
um in September of last year and it is

648
00:25:21,049 --> 00:25:18,960
just one of many trips they're going to

649
00:25:23,029 --> 00:25:21,059
make out here because our ultimate goal

650
00:25:25,130 --> 00:25:23,039
Vinnie is to not just have a physical

651
00:25:28,010 --> 00:25:25,140
archive the ultimate goal is to have a

652
00:25:30,950 --> 00:25:28,020
digital archive whereby you can be there

653
00:25:33,230 --> 00:25:30,960
in the UK we can have people in South

654
00:25:36,529 --> 00:25:33,240
America in Canada that can access

655
00:25:37,909 --> 00:25:36,539
digitally all of this material and I I

656
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:37,919
won't go into detail because we're doing

657
00:25:42,830 --> 00:25:39,600
a lot of work right now we just

658
00:25:45,049 --> 00:25:42,840
digitized over 46 000 images from

659
00:25:46,850 --> 00:25:45,059
microfilm we have an exhaustive

660
00:25:49,310 --> 00:25:46,860
microfilm collection of news clippings

661
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:49,320
case File reports that the general

662
00:25:54,289 --> 00:25:51,840
public has never seen I just literally

663
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:54,299
last week received an external hard

664
00:25:58,850 --> 00:25:57,360
drive with 46 000 images which I haven't

665
00:26:01,909 --> 00:25:58,860
even had time to go through to be honest

666
00:26:04,130 --> 00:26:01,919
with you again Antonio venez's

667
00:26:07,130 --> 00:26:04,140
Collection this year but Barry and Jan

668
00:26:08,930 --> 00:26:07,140
they've been here uh Mark hartzman who

669
00:26:11,810 --> 00:26:08,940
many of you may not know that name he's

670
00:26:14,029 --> 00:26:11,820
not necessarily a representative of the

671
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:14,039
UFO Community he's written several books

672
00:26:18,230 --> 00:26:15,840
on different topics he's working on an

673
00:26:22,190 --> 00:26:18,240
Incredible Book uh it's a coffee table

674
00:26:25,190 --> 00:26:22,200
book on UFOs and its history and he was

675
00:26:27,230 --> 00:26:25,200
here in October of last year used a

676
00:26:28,909 --> 00:26:27,240
wealth of information for his book which

677
00:26:31,789 --> 00:26:28,919
will be forthcoming probably in the next

678
00:26:33,710 --> 00:26:31,799
five to six months so uh Mark hartzman

679
00:26:34,970 --> 00:26:33,720
is his name wonderful gentleman and he's

680
00:26:37,970 --> 00:26:34,980
got some great information in there

681
00:26:41,269 --> 00:26:37,980
derived from the archives here

682
00:26:43,970 --> 00:26:41,279
um in addition to that uh James Fox uh

683
00:26:46,010 --> 00:26:43,980
was here uh he has told me repeatedly

684
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:46,020
David if it wasn't for your archive I

685
00:26:50,090 --> 00:26:47,520
couldn't have made the first half of my

686
00:26:51,710 --> 00:26:50,100
movie all the visual elements all the

687
00:26:54,169 --> 00:26:51,720
audio recordings that you hear in the

688
00:26:56,630 --> 00:26:54,179
first hour of James's documentary are

689
00:26:58,130 --> 00:26:56,640
from the archive here uh and he was like

690
00:26:59,269 --> 00:26:58,140
a kid in a candy store he would open a

691
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:59,279
drawer and start pulling stuff out

692
00:27:01,909 --> 00:27:00,720
saying we have to incorporate this we

693
00:27:03,950 --> 00:27:01,919
have to incorporate and of course if any

694
00:27:06,289 --> 00:27:03,960
as you know he started with this much

695
00:27:08,450 --> 00:27:06,299
and with the editing process it comes

696
00:27:09,769 --> 00:27:08,460
down to about that so there was only a

697
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:09,779
fraction of what you saw that he

698
00:27:14,750 --> 00:27:12,240
actually scanned and Incorporated uh but

699
00:27:16,610 --> 00:27:14,760
also uh Ross colthart from Australia had

700
00:27:18,830 --> 00:27:16,620
a wonderful opportunity for Ross to come

701
00:27:20,630 --> 00:27:18,840
here and he was able to go through some

702
00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:20,640
of the archives and case files and we

703
00:27:26,210 --> 00:27:23,220
had a wonderful discussion on that so uh

704
00:27:28,430 --> 00:27:26,220
working with him as well uh and just uh

705
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,440
any number of other researchers um Tom

706
00:27:32,870 --> 00:27:30,480
Whitmore from mufon he's on the move on

707
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:32,880
board uh Tom is going to be uh coming

708
00:27:37,250 --> 00:27:34,320
out we've tried to schedule several

709
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:37,260
times uh to come out here Michael schrat

710
00:27:42,409 --> 00:27:39,840
has made a number of visits out here as

711
00:27:44,450 --> 00:27:42,419
well uh and just any number of other

712
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:44,460
local researchers Statewide researchers

713
00:27:48,350 --> 00:27:46,080
but we get a lot of foot traffic

714
00:27:49,850 --> 00:27:48,360
admittedly during covet uh things kind

715
00:27:51,710 --> 00:27:49,860
of ground to a halt but we're starting

716
00:27:54,169 --> 00:27:51,720
to ramp up now and have additional

717
00:27:56,389 --> 00:27:54,179
people coming out and not only people

718
00:27:58,130 --> 00:27:56,399
coming here of any I should add that on

719
00:28:01,010 --> 00:27:58,140
a weekly basis I at least get one

720
00:28:02,810 --> 00:28:01,020
request someone looking into a case or

721
00:28:05,330 --> 00:28:02,820
someone maybe their father

722
00:28:07,310 --> 00:28:05,340
have the case I just had my friend uh

723
00:28:10,010 --> 00:28:07,320
Katie page who is the Colorado move on

724
00:28:11,750 --> 00:28:10,020
state director uh her family member had

725
00:28:13,909 --> 00:28:11,760
a UFO sighting and was interviewed by

726
00:28:15,470 --> 00:28:13,919
heineck and she wants to come down to go

727
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:15,480
through the heineck papers to see if she

728
00:28:18,529 --> 00:28:17,580
can find her relatives UFO sighting

729
00:28:20,810 --> 00:28:18,539
report

730
00:28:22,730 --> 00:28:20,820
oh that's wonderful yeah so it's really

731
00:28:24,529 --> 00:28:22,740
it's it it's a pleasure to be able to

732
00:28:27,169 --> 00:28:24,539
fulfill those data requests for people

733
00:28:29,269 --> 00:28:27,179
yeah I'm just gonna give a shout because

734
00:28:31,610 --> 00:28:29,279
Mr Graham Randall's here hello Graham

735
00:28:33,049 --> 00:28:31,620
good to see you so let me and Graham One

736
00:28:34,789 --> 00:28:33,059
Day Graham will go out and we'll go and

737
00:28:37,909 --> 00:28:34,799
visit David and we can do some research

738
00:28:38,750 --> 00:28:37,919
as well absolutely that would be

739
00:28:40,909 --> 00:28:38,760
wonderful

740
00:28:42,889 --> 00:28:40,919
good to see you Graeme thank you and

741
00:28:44,389 --> 00:28:42,899
Graham actually spoke with you on his

742
00:28:46,570 --> 00:28:44,399
podcast literally was I think it was

743
00:28:48,950 --> 00:28:46,580
this week

744
00:28:50,510 --> 00:28:48,960
and some of the microfilm that I still

745
00:28:52,490 --> 00:28:50,520
have to go through I was telling Graham

746
00:28:54,350 --> 00:28:52,500
I do have Foo Fighter reports that have

747
00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:54,360
not seen the the light of day I have

748
00:28:59,810 --> 00:28:56,880
tons of night Fighter Squadron reports

749
00:29:01,490 --> 00:28:59,820
and we're talking literally of any tens

750
00:29:03,470 --> 00:29:01,500
of thousands not hundreds of thousands

751
00:29:06,230 --> 00:29:03,480
of pages most of which has nothing to do

752
00:29:08,149 --> 00:29:06,240
with UFOs but interspersed in there

753
00:29:10,190 --> 00:29:08,159
according to Jan Aldrich he stated he

754
00:29:12,470 --> 00:29:10,200
goes there are Foo Fighter reports in

755
00:29:13,909 --> 00:29:12,480
there that we need to scan and share and

756
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:13,919
I told Graham that I want to definitely

757
00:29:16,610 --> 00:29:15,480
get that information to him once I do

758
00:29:20,330 --> 00:29:16,620
derive that

759
00:29:22,810 --> 00:29:20,340
I bet he was jumping for joy meeting

760
00:29:25,549 --> 00:29:22,820
actually over his microphone

761
00:29:28,130 --> 00:29:25,559
absolutely now someone else we saw in

762
00:29:30,710 --> 00:29:28,140
your your room there was uh Christopher

763
00:29:32,389 --> 00:29:30,720
melon oh yes Chris an identified series

764
00:29:34,490 --> 00:29:32,399
and you actually brought him up when you

765
00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:34,500
did speak to Ross coultart so can you

766
00:29:37,850 --> 00:29:36,240
tell us about why why you think

767
00:29:40,130 --> 00:29:37,860
Christopher melon is such an important

768
00:29:42,470 --> 00:29:40,140
figure in this subject well let me back

769
00:29:44,810 --> 00:29:42,480
up because uh you know obviously Chris

770
00:29:47,090 --> 00:29:44,820
has gotten a lot of notoriety since the

771
00:29:49,490 --> 00:29:47,100
New York Times article but in point of

772
00:29:51,889 --> 00:29:49,500
fact Vinnie uh I actually got in touch

773
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:51,899
with Chris uh about two or three years

774
00:29:58,370 --> 00:29:54,720
prior to any of that taking place

775
00:30:00,289 --> 00:29:58,380
um I had gotten uh a phone call I was on

776
00:30:01,430 --> 00:30:00,299
a business trip in El Paso Texas and I

777
00:30:04,010 --> 00:30:01,440
got a phone call driving back to

778
00:30:05,690 --> 00:30:04,020
Albuquerque where I live and uh from the

779
00:30:07,610 --> 00:30:05,700
mufon director at the time and he stated

780
00:30:09,529 --> 00:30:07,620
uh Dave do you know Chris Mellon I said

781
00:30:12,110 --> 00:30:09,539
well I know of Chris Mellon not

782
00:30:13,850 --> 00:30:12,120
certainly as we do today in UFO circles

783
00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:13,860
I said I know of Chris melon but I said

784
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:15,000
I certainly don't know him he goes well

785
00:30:20,029 --> 00:30:17,760
he wants to know you yeah he goes on to

786
00:30:22,010 --> 00:30:20,039
State he has a vested interest in these

787
00:30:23,510 --> 00:30:22,020
triangular UFO reports and he asked who

788
00:30:25,010 --> 00:30:23,520
would you recommend I talk to and he

789
00:30:26,570 --> 00:30:25,020
said well Dave literally wrote the book

790
00:30:28,310 --> 00:30:26,580
on the subject I think you should talk

791
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:28,320
to Dave so he goes do you mind if I

792
00:30:31,730 --> 00:30:30,000
share your cell number I never do that

793
00:30:33,950 --> 00:30:31,740
without asking the individual I said of

794
00:30:36,110 --> 00:30:33,960
course so it took us about three weeks

795
00:30:38,570 --> 00:30:36,120
uh Vinnie for us to align our schedules

796
00:30:41,450 --> 00:30:38,580
but literally sitting right here at this

797
00:30:43,610 --> 00:30:41,460
desk at this in this chair uh about two

798
00:30:46,130 --> 00:30:43,620
years I guess before unidentified ever

799
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:46,140
came on the the TV show

800
00:30:51,649 --> 00:30:49,860
um or three years now uh we sat for an

801
00:30:53,810 --> 00:30:51,659
hour and a half and the first words out

802
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:53,820
of Chris's mouth humbled me to be honest

803
00:30:56,690 --> 00:30:55,260
with you he said David I really

804
00:30:58,730 --> 00:30:56,700
appreciate you taking the time to talk

805
00:31:00,350 --> 00:30:58,740
to me when your book came out I read it

806
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:00,360
cover to cover I'm a huge fan of your

807
00:31:04,430 --> 00:31:02,640
research which coming from someone like

808
00:31:06,830 --> 00:31:04,440
Christopher Mellon that that's High

809
00:31:09,409 --> 00:31:06,840
Praise indeed I mean as I always like to

810
00:31:11,750 --> 00:31:09,419
say having gotten to know Chris now on a

811
00:31:13,909 --> 00:31:11,760
better level uh Chris is someone that

812
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:13,919
doesn't suffer fools uh you know he

813
00:31:18,289 --> 00:31:16,260
doesn't waste time with you know people

814
00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:18,299
that don't have their feet planted

815
00:31:22,370 --> 00:31:19,740
firmly on the ground that are looking at

816
00:31:24,769 --> 00:31:22,380
this subject and so we talked for about

817
00:31:27,649 --> 00:31:24,779
an hour and a half and he expressed his

818
00:31:30,049 --> 00:31:27,659
intense uh curiosity as it relates to

819
00:31:32,570 --> 00:31:30,059
these triangular UFOs UFOs in general

820
00:31:35,450 --> 00:31:32,580
but triangles in particular

821
00:31:37,009 --> 00:31:35,460
and then ironically enough after season

822
00:31:39,350 --> 00:31:37,019
one of unidentified aired I got

823
00:31:41,029 --> 00:31:39,360
contacted by the executive producer and

824
00:31:43,730 --> 00:31:41,039
they said we'd like to do an episode on

825
00:31:46,070 --> 00:31:43,740
triangles for season two and I said oh

826
00:31:47,090 --> 00:31:46,080
you must have talked to Chris and the

827
00:31:49,070 --> 00:31:47,100
producer didn't know what I was talking

828
00:31:50,450 --> 00:31:49,080
about goes no why why would you say that

829
00:31:52,789 --> 00:31:50,460
I said well Chris has an interest in

830
00:31:54,350 --> 00:31:52,799
triangles really I didn't know that I

831
00:31:56,509 --> 00:31:54,360
said and I proceeded to tell them what I

832
00:31:58,610 --> 00:31:56,519
just told you and your audience and he

833
00:32:00,769 --> 00:31:58,620
goes well he goes uh I'll definitely

834
00:32:02,690 --> 00:32:00,779
have to talk to Chris about that and I'm

835
00:32:06,409 --> 00:32:02,700
never a prima donna I never try to like

836
00:32:08,750 --> 00:32:06,419
uh Set uh you know uh expectations ahead

837
00:32:09,950 --> 00:32:08,760
of time or put constraints but he goes

838
00:32:11,630 --> 00:32:09,960
would you be interested in being part of

839
00:32:14,090 --> 00:32:11,640
season two and on this particular case

840
00:32:15,649 --> 00:32:14,100
Vinnie I said if you can get Chris to

841
00:32:17,450 --> 00:32:15,659
come out and talk to me about the

842
00:32:19,190 --> 00:32:17,460
subject then then I'll do it so I did

843
00:32:22,130 --> 00:32:19,200
have some preconditions on this this one

844
00:32:24,230 --> 00:32:22,140
and so as you as I think many you and

845
00:32:26,630 --> 00:32:24,240
your audience saw in season two I think

846
00:32:28,250 --> 00:32:26,640
episode two uh Chris did come out here

847
00:32:30,350 --> 00:32:28,260
and it was wonderful to have an

848
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:30,360
in-person face-to-face meeting and talk

849
00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:32,399
about it admittedly it was chaotic we

850
00:32:38,690 --> 00:32:35,700
had one day of filming and we only had

851
00:32:41,750 --> 00:32:38,700
this much time to really talk uh really

852
00:32:43,130 --> 00:32:41,760
on substance we had a lunch break and a

853
00:32:44,870 --> 00:32:43,140
coffee break and it was during that time

854
00:32:46,730 --> 00:32:44,880
in my kitchen and sitting out on my

855
00:32:49,009 --> 00:32:46,740
patio we talked about the UFO subject

856
00:32:50,690 --> 00:32:49,019
but we do keep in touch we still

857
00:32:53,389 --> 00:32:50,700
continue to email each other and text

858
00:32:54,590 --> 00:32:53,399
each other uh with information and as

859
00:32:57,590 --> 00:32:54,600
I've been actually putting this

860
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:57,600
historical data together Denny uh those

861
00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,039
that are particularly interesting like

862
00:33:02,870 --> 00:33:01,440
the Puget Sound case I thought that that

863
00:33:05,870 --> 00:33:02,880
would appeal to Chris from a National

864
00:33:08,210 --> 00:33:05,880
Defense standpoint sure uh and so he was

865
00:33:09,649 --> 00:33:08,220
very happy to uh have that and he even

866
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:09,659
said do you mind if I share this with

867
00:33:13,549 --> 00:33:12,000
some of my colleagues my colleagues I

868
00:33:15,950 --> 00:33:13,559
don't know who that is or where they are

869
00:33:17,810 --> 00:33:15,960
but I said yeah I'm an open book you

870
00:33:19,909 --> 00:33:17,820
know my data is here for anyone that

871
00:33:21,830 --> 00:33:19,919
wants to look at the subject seriously

872
00:33:23,870 --> 00:33:21,840
yeah that's amazing I mean the episode

873
00:33:27,049 --> 00:33:23,880
came across so well it was you know

874
00:33:29,509 --> 00:33:27,059
great to see it you know happening

875
00:33:30,950 --> 00:33:29,519
um now one case that stood out to me in

876
00:33:32,870 --> 00:33:30,960
the past year that I actually heard you

877
00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:32,880
talking about but I've not really seen

878
00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:34,260
it anywhere else is the Farmington

879
00:33:38,269 --> 00:33:36,960
Armada case Yeah you mentioned it in an

880
00:33:39,889 --> 00:33:38,279
interview with George Knapp last year

881
00:33:41,870 --> 00:33:39,899
and I was just fascinated from the

882
00:33:43,009 --> 00:33:41,880
moment and I heard about it but like I

883
00:33:44,990 --> 00:33:43,019
said I've not heard of that case

884
00:33:46,370 --> 00:33:45,000
anywhere else so would you mind just

885
00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:46,380
giving us a little overview of the case

886
00:33:51,169 --> 00:33:49,200
and then absolutely so so no absolutely

887
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:51,179
it's it Vinnie I have to tell you it's

888
00:33:56,870 --> 00:33:53,940
one of those historic cases that to your

889
00:33:58,970 --> 00:33:56,880
point never really got its due and

890
00:34:01,909 --> 00:33:58,980
partly I think it's due to the fact that

891
00:34:04,250 --> 00:34:01,919
this this particular episode or series

892
00:34:07,430 --> 00:34:04,260
of episodes I should say uh played out

893
00:34:10,069 --> 00:34:07,440
in March of 1950 so we were only three

894
00:34:12,770 --> 00:34:10,079
years into you know the UFO Modern Age

895
00:34:14,990 --> 00:34:12,780
of the UFO phenomenon and the reason I

896
00:34:17,389 --> 00:34:15,000
say that is I don't think a lot of work

897
00:34:19,909 --> 00:34:17,399
was done on it because uh the groups I

898
00:34:22,849 --> 00:34:19,919
mentioned earlier such as nycap didn't

899
00:34:25,089 --> 00:34:22,859
form until December 1956 and even CSI

900
00:34:29,329 --> 00:34:25,099
New York didn't form I believe until 50

901
00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:29,339
354 time frame right so there were no

902
00:34:34,669 --> 00:34:31,800
organized bodies in the United States

903
00:34:37,790 --> 00:34:34,679
collecting UFO case material

904
00:34:39,530 --> 00:34:37,800
nicap did retrospectively go back and

905
00:34:43,250 --> 00:34:39,540
try to gather news clippings and things

906
00:34:46,849 --> 00:34:43,260
like that but I moved here with my job

907
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,859
here to New Mexico in 2012 and after

908
00:34:51,530 --> 00:34:49,200
writing my book and doing some lectures

909
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:51,540
on the subject I was actually going up

910
00:34:55,369 --> 00:34:53,040
to Farmington on business business

911
00:34:56,869 --> 00:34:55,379
ironically enough and I thought well

912
00:34:59,150 --> 00:34:56,879
while I'm up here I have to take

913
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:59,160
advantage of this opportunity and so

914
00:35:03,530 --> 00:35:01,680
started digging into it and I was amazed

915
00:35:05,930 --> 00:35:03,540
at the amount of data that we had on

916
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:05,940
this case specifically

917
00:35:10,970 --> 00:35:08,940
uh Stanton Friedman was here uh at my

918
00:35:13,370 --> 00:35:10,980
home uh before he passed away some years

919
00:35:15,170 --> 00:35:13,380
back and I was telling him about my

920
00:35:17,450 --> 00:35:15,180
initial work on the case and he looked

921
00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:17,460
at me goes you should check James

922
00:35:21,950 --> 00:35:20,040
McDonald's files in Tucson Arizona I

923
00:35:23,870 --> 00:35:21,960
think James did some investigation on

924
00:35:26,870 --> 00:35:23,880
that case so I did uh I believe it was

925
00:35:28,609 --> 00:35:26,880
2015. I went to the University of

926
00:35:29,930 --> 00:35:28,619
Arizona in Tucson and for anybody that

927
00:35:32,089 --> 00:35:29,940
ever goes through Arizona if you're

928
00:35:34,490 --> 00:35:32,099
interested in UFOs go to the University

929
00:35:36,530 --> 00:35:34,500
of Arizona and Tucson it's you'll be a

930
00:35:38,750 --> 00:35:36,540
kid in a candy store you can actually

931
00:35:41,270 --> 00:35:38,760
leave through Dr James McDonald's

932
00:35:44,210 --> 00:35:41,280
personal Case Files handwritten notes

933
00:35:46,730 --> 00:35:44,220
his audio recordings with Witnesses he

934
00:35:49,550 --> 00:35:46,740
interviewed uh two witnesses uh which

935
00:35:51,530 --> 00:35:49,560
are recorded uh uh and admittedly he was

936
00:35:53,450 --> 00:35:51,540
again retrospectively looking at this

937
00:35:56,089 --> 00:35:53,460
because he didn't get involved in UFOs

938
00:35:58,130 --> 00:35:56,099
until the mid late 60s but he

939
00:36:00,470 --> 00:35:58,140
interviewed a couple Witnesses and in

940
00:36:02,690 --> 00:36:00,480
addition to that he had detailed notes

941
00:36:05,390 --> 00:36:02,700
of interviews and some of this

942
00:36:07,250 --> 00:36:05,400
information you will not find online you

943
00:36:10,130 --> 00:36:07,260
will not find in news clippings it was

944
00:36:11,569 --> 00:36:10,140
based on his personal interviews with

945
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:11,579
individuals that were involved in the

946
00:36:15,650 --> 00:36:13,680
case but basically what transpired Benny

947
00:36:18,050 --> 00:36:15,660
for those that aren't familiar for three

948
00:36:20,870 --> 00:36:18,060
straight days broad daylight sightings

949
00:36:24,349 --> 00:36:20,880
of anywhere from single to dozen to

950
00:36:26,569 --> 00:36:24,359
hundreds of structured flying saucers

951
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:26,579
for lack of a better term

952
00:36:31,430 --> 00:36:29,160
uh there were Bankers there were shop

953
00:36:32,990 --> 00:36:31,440
owners there were Housewives people

954
00:36:35,450 --> 00:36:33,000
coming out in the streets traffic

955
00:36:38,030 --> 00:36:35,460
literally grinding to a halt as people

956
00:36:40,550 --> 00:36:38,040
were watching these formations moving in

957
00:36:43,210 --> 00:36:40,560
different directions over the city broad

958
00:36:45,829 --> 00:36:43,220
daylight sightings of structured objects

959
00:36:47,329 --> 00:36:45,839
interesting note uh talking about the

960
00:36:49,430 --> 00:36:47,339
Case Files which are immediately off

961
00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:49,440
camera here to my right one of the

962
00:36:52,609 --> 00:36:50,880
things I looked at when I first got

963
00:36:54,530 --> 00:36:52,619
these delivered in addition to triangles

964
00:36:57,470 --> 00:36:54,540
was I wanted to see is there anything on

965
00:36:59,510 --> 00:36:57,480
Farmington most of what was there was

966
00:37:03,290 --> 00:36:59,520
stuff I already had gathered news

967
00:37:04,849 --> 00:37:03,300
clippings Etc uh but working with Jan

968
00:37:06,530 --> 00:37:04,859
Aldrich and Barry Greenwood and I love

969
00:37:08,750 --> 00:37:06,540
telling the story because people always

970
00:37:11,089 --> 00:37:08,760
ask me do you ever have any aha moments

971
00:37:13,190 --> 00:37:11,099
going through these files

972
00:37:15,589 --> 00:37:13,200
um I was talking to Jan and Barry on the

973
00:37:17,390 --> 00:37:15,599
phone as we often do and Barry said I'm

974
00:37:20,930 --> 00:37:17,400
looking for a case from the Yukon

975
00:37:22,849 --> 00:37:20,940
Territory in October 1950 and they're

976
00:37:24,170 --> 00:37:22,859
talking and I said gentlemen I'll just

977
00:37:25,970 --> 00:37:24,180
put you on speakerphone keep talking

978
00:37:27,890 --> 00:37:25,980
I've got the files right here let me

979
00:37:31,430 --> 00:37:27,900
look you know while we're discussing

980
00:37:33,890 --> 00:37:31,440
this I go through the nycat file uh some

981
00:37:36,710 --> 00:37:33,900
are are clearly noted as location date

982
00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:36,720
and and time other ones are just lumped

983
00:37:41,329 --> 00:37:38,700
into a general catch-all folder such as

984
00:37:44,569 --> 00:37:41,339
October 1950. so I'm going through

985
00:37:46,910 --> 00:37:44,579
October 1950 and as I'm leafing through

986
00:37:49,910 --> 00:37:46,920
it looking for a case for Barry

987
00:37:52,310 --> 00:37:49,920
lo and behold I see a witness name on a

988
00:37:56,050 --> 00:37:52,320
report form and the witness's name was

989
00:37:58,550 --> 00:37:56,060
hulon Pace

990
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:58,560
h-u-l-o-n-p-a-c-e admittedly not a

991
00:38:03,770 --> 00:38:01,200
common name I've never heard of a hulon

992
00:38:06,349 --> 00:38:03,780
before let alone a hulon pace

993
00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:06,359
I saw that and Vinnie as I've told the

994
00:38:09,950 --> 00:38:08,280
story a number of times if anyone else

995
00:38:12,410 --> 00:38:09,960
were to leave through those files it

996
00:38:13,790 --> 00:38:12,420
wouldn't have registered you would just

997
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:13,800
kept leafing through it

998
00:38:19,550 --> 00:38:17,700
I stopped and I froze because one of the

999
00:38:23,270 --> 00:38:19,560
names in my research on Farmington one

1000
00:38:25,849 --> 00:38:23,280
of the witnesses was shulon pace wow but

1001
00:38:28,970 --> 00:38:25,859
I'm going through an October 1950 file

1002
00:38:31,849 --> 00:38:28,980
now mind you the Farmington Armada case

1003
00:38:35,210 --> 00:38:31,859
was the 16th 17th and 18th of March

1004
00:38:36,890 --> 00:38:35,220
1950. I pulled the file out it talks

1005
00:38:38,569 --> 00:38:36,900
about the Perry smoke Chevrolet garage

1006
00:38:40,849 --> 00:38:38,579
where he worked which is where the other

1007
00:38:42,770 --> 00:38:40,859
Witnesses worked the majority of the

1008
00:38:45,230 --> 00:38:42,780
witnesses that were involved in the

1009
00:38:47,630 --> 00:38:45,240
Farmington case so and then he he goes

1010
00:38:49,490 --> 00:38:47,640
into describing what they observed it

1011
00:38:52,010 --> 00:38:49,500
matched what the other Witnesses

1012
00:38:54,010 --> 00:38:52,020
described for Farmington but it was

1013
00:38:57,290 --> 00:38:54,020
noted that this occurred in October

1014
00:38:59,089 --> 00:38:57,300
1950. now mind you it was a nightcap and

1015
00:39:00,890 --> 00:38:59,099
an apro investigator that were jointly

1016
00:39:03,650 --> 00:39:00,900
interviewing this gentleman in the late

1017
00:39:05,569 --> 00:39:03,660
60s for researchers that are listening

1018
00:39:06,530 --> 00:39:05,579
to this you'll understand if any you've

1019
00:39:09,589 --> 00:39:06,540
probably experienced this yourself

1020
00:39:11,030 --> 00:39:09,599
people don't always remember the date of

1021
00:39:13,490 --> 00:39:11,040
their sighting if it happened decades

1022
00:39:15,530 --> 00:39:13,500
ago sure but they remember little things

1023
00:39:17,569 --> 00:39:15,540
like I remember I had my favorite

1024
00:39:19,490 --> 00:39:17,579
leather jacket that I always loved to

1025
00:39:20,990 --> 00:39:19,500
wear back then so it couldn't have been

1026
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:21,000
the summer time it must have been either

1027
00:39:26,750 --> 00:39:23,700
the spring or the fall and in this

1028
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,760
particular case hulon uh erroneously

1029
00:39:31,250 --> 00:39:28,560
stated the sighting happened in October

1030
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:31,260
1950 when in fact it was the Farmington

1031
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:34,320
sighting from March but what is unique

1032
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:36,420
and this is a bombshell moment for me as

1033
00:39:41,990 --> 00:39:39,599
a researcher after all the Decades of

1034
00:39:43,910 --> 00:39:42,000
news clippings and written testimony

1035
00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:43,920
from these Witnesses

1036
00:39:49,370 --> 00:39:46,200
one of the things we never had believe

1037
00:39:52,790 --> 00:39:49,380
it or not was a sketch of the objects

1038
00:39:55,609 --> 00:39:52,800
and you want Pace in this 1960s account

1039
00:39:57,589 --> 00:39:55,619
of the Farmington incident sketch the

1040
00:39:59,150 --> 00:39:57,599
object as it looked on the side and as

1041
00:40:00,170 --> 00:39:59,160
it looked like this and it was a typical

1042
00:40:02,930 --> 00:40:00,180
disc

1043
00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:02,940
in addition in addition on the report

1044
00:40:07,970 --> 00:40:05,640
form he listed two additional Witnesses

1045
00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:07,980
by name that were never part of the

1046
00:40:11,690 --> 00:40:09,720
historical record so we had two

1047
00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:11,700
additional witness names that we never

1048
00:40:16,550 --> 00:40:14,460
had before and it was simply by virtue

1049
00:40:18,829 --> 00:40:16,560
of looking for this other case for Barry

1050
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,839
that I happen to stumble across this in

1051
00:40:21,290 --> 00:40:20,400
the thousands of case files that I have

1052
00:40:23,329 --> 00:40:21,300
here

1053
00:40:24,710 --> 00:40:23,339
that's an amazing story I love it and I

1054
00:40:26,990 --> 00:40:24,720
love it when things like that when you

1055
00:40:29,870 --> 00:40:27,000
get a name it just it's another Avenue

1056
00:40:32,210 --> 00:40:29,880
and that's just what more could you on

1057
00:40:34,430 --> 00:40:32,220
well in Vinnie as you know having done

1058
00:40:36,290 --> 00:40:34,440
research yourself you can never say a

1059
00:40:37,730 --> 00:40:36,300
case is closed because you never know

1060
00:40:40,250 --> 00:40:37,740
when you're going to stumble across new

1061
00:40:41,750 --> 00:40:40,260
data absolutely yeah as evidenced by

1062
00:40:44,630 --> 00:40:41,760
this Farmington case

1063
00:40:46,370 --> 00:40:44,640
yeah now that's wonderful

1064
00:40:49,609 --> 00:40:46,380
um one thing I wanted to ask is that you

1065
00:40:51,890 --> 00:40:49,619
I've not heard about any instances of

1066
00:40:54,050 --> 00:40:51,900
triangles either Landing or potentially

1067
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:54,060
crashing right is there anything in the

1068
00:40:58,910 --> 00:40:56,880
records anywhere not that I found uh

1069
00:41:00,650 --> 00:40:58,920
there are a couple accounts where a

1070
00:41:02,329 --> 00:41:00,660
triangle was observed hovering

1071
00:41:06,170 --> 00:41:02,339
approximately one foot above the ground

1072
00:41:09,230 --> 00:41:06,180
but to your point I have no documented

1073
00:41:12,050 --> 00:41:09,240
accounts of a triangle being seen on the

1074
00:41:13,430 --> 00:41:12,060
ground or leaving uh some type of

1075
00:41:16,190 --> 00:41:13,440
Landing Trace

1076
00:41:17,690 --> 00:41:16,200
having touched the ground and I always

1077
00:41:19,609 --> 00:41:17,700
like to say when you're looking at all

1078
00:41:22,069 --> 00:41:19,619
of these hundreds and thousands of cases

1079
00:41:25,730 --> 00:41:22,079
yes you look for those things that fall

1080
00:41:27,290 --> 00:41:25,740
into patterns but equally so not only is

1081
00:41:29,569 --> 00:41:27,300
it important with the things we see what

1082
00:41:32,270 --> 00:41:29,579
are the things we don't see and to your

1083
00:41:34,069 --> 00:41:32,280
point as I think I put in my book I

1084
00:41:35,569 --> 00:41:34,079
don't have any accounts of triangles

1085
00:41:38,329 --> 00:41:35,579
Landing

1086
00:41:39,650 --> 00:41:38,339
strange it's really strange and then I

1087
00:41:41,809 --> 00:41:39,660
also one thing I always find strange

1088
00:41:45,050 --> 00:41:41,819
when thinking about triangles is so many

1089
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:45,060
of the accounts they are very low even

1090
00:41:50,930 --> 00:41:48,540
the these you know giant ones are low

1091
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:50,940
and slow right so they're certainly not

1092
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:53,280
making any effort to being conspicuous

1093
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:55,200
or hide or anything like that any

1094
00:41:59,150 --> 00:41:57,599
theories on why that might be well I

1095
00:42:00,890 --> 00:41:59,160
think Chris touched on an interesting

1096
00:42:03,230 --> 00:42:00,900
Theory when I first got involved in the

1097
00:42:05,569 --> 00:42:03,240
Triangle research I thought at the time

1098
00:42:07,849 --> 00:42:05,579
because again most of the triangles that

1099
00:42:10,010 --> 00:42:07,859
we're used to seeing look something like

1100
00:42:12,170 --> 00:42:10,020
this right wow this is a model someone

1101
00:42:14,210 --> 00:42:12,180
made for me for lectures but this is

1102
00:42:16,010 --> 00:42:14,220
kind of the the quintessential triangle

1103
00:42:18,050 --> 00:42:16,020
that most people think of correct yeah

1104
00:42:20,569 --> 00:42:18,060
as far as that goes

1105
00:42:23,089 --> 00:42:20,579
um but uh in fact many of these

1106
00:42:25,069 --> 00:42:23,099
triangles have complete absence of

1107
00:42:26,809 --> 00:42:25,079
Lights the Puget Sound case that I

1108
00:42:28,490 --> 00:42:26,819
alluded to from the 60s there were no

1109
00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:28,500
lights evident it was strictly the light

1110
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,420
shining up from the ships the naval

1111
00:42:35,089 --> 00:42:33,599
ships that illuminated the underside uh

1112
00:42:36,589 --> 00:42:35,099
in addition to that many of these

1113
00:42:39,950 --> 00:42:36,599
historic triangle reports and modern

1114
00:42:42,589 --> 00:42:39,960
reports describe the object glowing like

1115
00:42:44,990 --> 00:42:42,599
the entire object is bathed in an orange

1116
00:42:46,910 --> 00:42:45,000
or red light but they don't have

1117
00:42:49,730 --> 00:42:46,920
specific lights at the point points like

1118
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:49,740
we often see an initial Theory or

1119
00:42:53,150 --> 00:42:52,140
hypothesis hypothesis I was working on

1120
00:42:54,650 --> 00:42:53,160
was

1121
00:42:56,750 --> 00:42:54,660
I don't think that these things have to

1122
00:42:59,150 --> 00:42:56,760
adhere to standard Aviation lighting

1123
00:43:01,130 --> 00:42:59,160
configuration so I don't think these

1124
00:43:02,750 --> 00:43:01,140
lights are lights as such they're

1125
00:43:05,210 --> 00:43:02,760
probably an inherent part of the

1126
00:43:08,750 --> 00:43:05,220
propulsion technology that we're seeing

1127
00:43:10,130 --> 00:43:08,760
but as again as we talked about Vinnie

1128
00:43:11,870 --> 00:43:10,140
it doesn't matter what I believe I got

1129
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,880
to go where the data takes me yeah of

1130
00:43:16,370 --> 00:43:13,440
course I started getting too many

1131
00:43:18,530 --> 00:43:16,380
reports of triangles that were

1132
00:43:20,750 --> 00:43:18,540
completely devoid of any lights

1133
00:43:22,970 --> 00:43:20,760
so if the lights are indicative of the

1134
00:43:25,250 --> 00:43:22,980
propulsion system that gives it lift how

1135
00:43:28,670 --> 00:43:25,260
can we have reports of triangles that

1136
00:43:30,410 --> 00:43:28,680
are not illuminated yet are Aloft so I

1137
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:30,420
had to kind of disavow myself from that

1138
00:43:35,690 --> 00:43:33,359
initial idea and so but then Chris hit

1139
00:43:36,770 --> 00:43:35,700
on something and I it the more and more

1140
00:43:38,990 --> 00:43:36,780
I thought about it after we did that

1141
00:43:40,790 --> 00:43:39,000
unidentified episode and it plays out

1142
00:43:43,490 --> 00:43:40,800
our discussion on that episode for those

1143
00:43:45,290 --> 00:43:43,500
that haven't seen it he speculated that

1144
00:43:47,569 --> 00:43:45,300
due to the fact these things fly Slow

1145
00:43:50,690 --> 00:43:47,579
and Low and quite often they seem to

1146
00:43:52,190 --> 00:43:50,700
move in a grid pattern many of them and

1147
00:43:54,589 --> 00:43:52,200
in fact many witnesses have stated in

1148
00:43:56,569 --> 00:43:54,599
the reports I have it it was almost as

1149
00:43:58,490 --> 00:43:56,579
if it was looking for something

1150
00:44:00,170 --> 00:43:58,500
and Chris came up with an interesting

1151
00:44:02,329 --> 00:44:00,180
idea that maybe these things are

1152
00:44:03,890 --> 00:44:02,339
scanning and the reason they're doing a

1153
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:03,900
grid search is they're doing a detailed

1154
00:44:09,470 --> 00:44:06,720
scan of either the surface or subsurface

1155
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:09,480
elements and the more I thought about

1156
00:44:15,050 --> 00:44:12,480
that I think that that fits the data and

1157
00:44:16,550 --> 00:44:15,060
in in that case these lights may not be

1158
00:44:17,930 --> 00:44:16,560
lights that are part of the inherent

1159
00:44:19,730 --> 00:44:17,940
propulsion system

1160
00:44:22,370 --> 00:44:19,740
they could be sensing elements or

1161
00:44:25,790 --> 00:44:22,380
scanning elements uh some type of sensor

1162
00:44:28,430 --> 00:44:25,800
array that is collecting data and in

1163
00:44:30,589 --> 00:44:28,440
fact the uh I didn't have time to show

1164
00:44:32,930 --> 00:44:30,599
obviously all of these historic cases in

1165
00:44:35,450 --> 00:44:32,940
my new lecture I have a number of

1166
00:44:38,270 --> 00:44:35,460
wonderful sketches by Witnesses Vinnie

1167
00:44:40,250 --> 00:44:38,280
where you see a tree line here and you

1168
00:44:41,690 --> 00:44:40,260
see a triangle and they sketch the

1169
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:41,700
triangle moving like this and then they

1170
00:44:45,950 --> 00:44:43,440
sketch that the triangle actually had to

1171
00:44:48,530 --> 00:44:45,960
go up to clear the trees and then drop

1172
00:44:50,210 --> 00:44:48,540
back down wow so many of these objects

1173
00:44:52,730 --> 00:44:50,220
like heinek mentioned in that letter

1174
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:52,740
that I quoted many of the objects are

1175
00:44:57,770 --> 00:44:55,920
seen below Treetop level and a number of

1176
00:44:59,510 --> 00:44:57,780
cases also described that the object had

1177
00:45:00,890 --> 00:44:59,520
to increase altitude to clear the power

1178
00:45:04,309 --> 00:45:00,900
lines

1179
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:04,319
so and initially I thought again it was

1180
00:45:08,210 --> 00:45:06,060
propulsion technology that's the lights

1181
00:45:10,130 --> 00:45:08,220
and the reason they're flying low is

1182
00:45:11,569 --> 00:45:10,140
because they're evading radar because I

1183
00:45:14,329 --> 00:45:11,579
thought well that's we have a corollary

1184
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,339
for that we fly low to evade radar but

1185
00:45:18,770 --> 00:45:16,560
then taking Chris's elements and then

1186
00:45:20,990 --> 00:45:18,780
again following the data I think we have

1187
00:45:23,809 --> 00:45:21,000
to be true to the data

1188
00:45:25,609 --> 00:45:23,819
um I think scanning uh to Chris's point

1189
00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:25,619
I think that that might be hitting the

1190
00:45:28,250 --> 00:45:27,359
nail on the head and the other thing is

1191
00:45:30,589 --> 00:45:28,260
this

1192
00:45:32,270 --> 00:45:30,599
if we're dealing with a craft involving

1193
00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:32,280
technology of some type whether it's

1194
00:45:37,010 --> 00:45:34,140
human or I hate to say it

1195
00:45:38,510 --> 00:45:37,020
extraterrestrial let's say other let's

1196
00:45:39,370 --> 00:45:38,520
just go with the amorphous category

1197
00:45:42,170 --> 00:45:39,380
other

1198
00:45:44,089 --> 00:45:42,180
if we're dealing with our technology or

1199
00:45:47,870 --> 00:45:44,099
someone else's

1200
00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:47,880
um you know this technology

1201
00:45:55,010 --> 00:45:51,720
um these objects are purpose-built right

1202
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:55,020
we build a vehicle to as a sports car to

1203
00:45:59,329 --> 00:45:57,119
go fast down a highway we also have

1204
00:46:01,609 --> 00:45:59,339
jeeps and off-road vehicles to go over

1205
00:46:04,730 --> 00:46:01,619
rugged terrain we also have construction

1206
00:46:07,309 --> 00:46:04,740
vehicles like a backhoe to dig a hole if

1207
00:46:09,349 --> 00:46:07,319
we're going to lay pipe underground I

1208
00:46:11,870 --> 00:46:09,359
think that these UFOs and the different

1209
00:46:14,270 --> 00:46:11,880
types that are being described are based

1210
00:46:16,430 --> 00:46:14,280
on that the objects we're seeing are

1211
00:46:18,770 --> 00:46:16,440
designed they're purpose built and

1212
00:46:21,170 --> 00:46:18,780
that's not my idea this is a suggestion

1213
00:46:22,970 --> 00:46:21,180
that was floated Me by John Alexander he

1214
00:46:24,770 --> 00:46:22,980
said when we build a bomber we don't

1215
00:46:27,170 --> 00:46:24,780
build an aircraft and say we're going to

1216
00:46:30,170 --> 00:46:27,180
make it a bomber we build a bomber with

1217
00:46:32,510 --> 00:46:30,180
the specs to accommodate the mission

1218
00:46:34,849 --> 00:46:32,520
and I think these triangles to Chris's

1219
00:46:38,329 --> 00:46:34,859
Point are designed as such to do

1220
00:46:39,770 --> 00:46:38,339
triangulation to do scanning and unless

1221
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:39,780
someone can offer a better explanation

1222
00:46:42,950 --> 00:46:41,040
that I think that's the leading

1223
00:46:44,569 --> 00:46:42,960
hypothesis at this point

1224
00:46:46,490 --> 00:46:44,579
I think it's a great hypothesis yeah

1225
00:46:48,829 --> 00:46:46,500
hopefully one day we'll know more

1226
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:48,839
that'll be great now

1227
00:46:53,510 --> 00:46:51,119
um I'm going to get to some um some

1228
00:46:54,770 --> 00:46:53,520
viewer questions shortly but one thing I

1229
00:46:56,150 --> 00:46:54,780
wanted to speak about is this trans

1230
00:46:58,490 --> 00:46:56,160
medium thing that we've heard a lot more

1231
00:47:00,829 --> 00:46:58,500
about in the last few years I mean the

1232
00:47:02,750 --> 00:47:00,839
talk of this elusive photograph that

1233
00:47:04,730 --> 00:47:02,760
apparently exists that shows a triangle

1234
00:47:07,490 --> 00:47:04,740
that has emerged from the ocean and has

1235
00:47:10,430 --> 00:47:07,500
risen to 30 000 feet and been snapped by

1236
00:47:12,230 --> 00:47:10,440
a pilot now you know how many cases in

1237
00:47:14,569 --> 00:47:12,240
the past or not how many but have there

1238
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:14,579
been many cases of of transmedium

1239
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:17,280
especially ocean-based triangular cases

1240
00:47:23,150 --> 00:47:19,920
I don't think I have any historical

1241
00:47:26,270 --> 00:47:23,160
cases on file to be honest with you yeah

1242
00:47:28,309 --> 00:47:26,280
involving trans medium flight uh we have

1243
00:47:31,130 --> 00:47:28,319
other you I should be very clear though

1244
00:47:33,290 --> 00:47:31,140
we have other UFOs yes need to go from

1245
00:47:35,270 --> 00:47:33,300
the air to water water to air but I

1246
00:47:36,950 --> 00:47:35,280
don't I can't think of one triangle

1247
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:36,960
report that actually demonstrates

1248
00:47:40,730 --> 00:47:39,119
transmedium flight and again that's not

1249
00:47:43,609 --> 00:47:40,740
to say that they don't exist it's just

1250
00:47:45,290 --> 00:47:43,619
of course admittedly you know one out of

1251
00:47:47,690 --> 00:47:45,300
every 10 UFOs are probably officially

1252
00:47:49,309 --> 00:47:47,700
reported so as I always like to say even

1253
00:47:51,230 --> 00:47:49,319
all of the data that I'm dealing with

1254
00:47:53,569 --> 00:47:51,240
here it's table scraps relative to

1255
00:47:55,370 --> 00:47:53,579
really what's going on out there

1256
00:47:56,870 --> 00:47:55,380
sure that's interesting I find that

1257
00:47:58,609 --> 00:47:56,880
really fascinating

1258
00:48:00,530 --> 00:47:58,619
right let's get on to some uh some of

1259
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:00,540
these guys questions

1260
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:02,400
um Christian here thank you for the for

1261
00:48:05,150 --> 00:48:03,839
the donation Christian

1262
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:05,160
um and it's just a comment saying thank

1263
00:48:08,089 --> 00:48:06,480
you for your research you've done for

1264
00:48:09,589 --> 00:48:08,099
years so thank you Christian really

1265
00:48:11,870 --> 00:48:09,599
appreciate it

1266
00:48:13,790 --> 00:48:11,880
uh Laura Sosa asks that are there any

1267
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:13,800
triangle craft cases with lights at the

1268
00:48:19,190 --> 00:48:15,920
three points but transparent in between

1269
00:48:21,170 --> 00:48:19,200
yes uh I actually have a slide in my

1270
00:48:22,730 --> 00:48:21,180
presentation it doesn't show three

1271
00:48:25,250 --> 00:48:22,740
lights it actually shows multiple lights

1272
00:48:26,930 --> 00:48:25,260
but uh Omar Fowler who is a great UK

1273
00:48:29,809 --> 00:48:26,940
researcher I was in touch with back in

1274
00:48:33,109 --> 00:48:29,819
the 90s and early 2000s he was a Pioneer

1275
00:48:35,809 --> 00:48:33,119
involving triangle UFO sightings

1276
00:48:38,809 --> 00:48:35,819
um he had a case involving a triangular

1277
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:38,819
frame if if you will that was open in

1278
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:40,319
the middle they could see the stars

1279
00:48:45,130 --> 00:48:42,000
through the middle but not around this

1280
00:48:47,930 --> 00:48:45,140
triangular frame and ironically enough

1281
00:48:51,109 --> 00:48:47,940
in The nightcap reports I found one from

1282
00:48:53,270 --> 00:48:51,119
I believe late 50s or early 60s that

1283
00:48:55,609 --> 00:48:53,280
shows the same type a triangular

1284
00:48:57,170 --> 00:48:55,619
framework that was Hollow in the center

1285
00:48:59,210 --> 00:48:57,180
they could see the stars in the middle

1286
00:49:02,510 --> 00:48:59,220
but they could clearly see the outline

1287
00:49:04,370 --> 00:49:02,520
of this triangular frame in Omar's

1288
00:49:05,990 --> 00:49:04,380
particular case I believe the triangle

1289
00:49:07,970 --> 00:49:06,000
was flying with the flat side as the

1290
00:49:10,130 --> 00:49:07,980
Leading Edge and in the case I had the

1291
00:49:12,829 --> 00:49:10,140
the triangle is moving with the point as

1292
00:49:15,470 --> 00:49:12,839
the Leading Edge so we do have some some

1293
00:49:17,809 --> 00:49:15,480
accounts not a lot not a lot I I would

1294
00:49:20,030 --> 00:49:17,819
say a handful of reports that describe

1295
00:49:22,069 --> 00:49:20,040
that but a great question yeah

1296
00:49:24,049 --> 00:49:22,079
absolutely this kind of leads into David

1297
00:49:26,150 --> 00:49:24,059
here's question which is have you ever

1298
00:49:28,670 --> 00:49:26,160
wondered why triangular

1299
00:49:30,650 --> 00:49:28,680
anything to do with propulsion you know

1300
00:49:32,990 --> 00:49:30,660
it's a great question uh and again

1301
00:49:35,870 --> 00:49:33,000
initially I thought well triangles we

1302
00:49:38,030 --> 00:49:35,880
have B2 stealth bombers we have f-117a

1303
00:49:40,609 --> 00:49:38,040
stealth Fighters we have a history of

1304
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:40,619
delta wing aircraft and it makes sense

1305
00:49:44,690 --> 00:49:43,440
from an aerodynamic standpoint the and

1306
00:49:46,250 --> 00:49:44,700
I'm going to resort to my model here

1307
00:49:48,589 --> 00:49:46,260
again though the thing I like to point

1308
00:49:51,650 --> 00:49:48,599
out though is in addition to the length

1309
00:49:52,910 --> 00:49:51,660
and the width we also have thickness and

1310
00:49:54,049 --> 00:49:52,920
this is really great that I can

1311
00:49:55,609 --> 00:49:54,059
demonstrate this because I tried to

1312
00:49:57,290 --> 00:49:55,619
describe this I think I lose people on

1313
00:49:58,730 --> 00:49:57,300
it but when you have an object moving

1314
00:50:00,650 --> 00:49:58,740
like this

1315
00:50:02,809 --> 00:50:00,660
with the flat side is the Leading Edge

1316
00:50:04,670 --> 00:50:02,819
and thickness as I always like to save

1317
00:50:07,549 --> 00:50:04,680
Denny you basically have an aircraft

1318
00:50:09,470 --> 00:50:07,559
that's aerodynamic as a brick yeah

1319
00:50:11,870 --> 00:50:09,480
so it makes no sense that we have these

1320
00:50:13,549 --> 00:50:11,880
objects moving like this which obviously

1321
00:50:15,530 --> 00:50:13,559
suggested some other type of propulsion

1322
00:50:17,450 --> 00:50:15,540
technology that's allowing these things

1323
00:50:19,790 --> 00:50:17,460
to move through the air

1324
00:50:21,049 --> 00:50:19,800
um but initially I did think that of

1325
00:50:23,170 --> 00:50:21,059
course this could be something military

1326
00:50:26,630 --> 00:50:23,180
could be the next gen stealth aircraft

1327
00:50:28,490 --> 00:50:26,640
but when again you follow the historical

1328
00:50:30,230 --> 00:50:28,500
record and luckily I have unfettered

1329
00:50:32,569 --> 00:50:30,240
access to this historical you know

1330
00:50:35,690 --> 00:50:32,579
Treasure Trove of historic cases and

1331
00:50:37,910 --> 00:50:35,700
I've had the unique uh position to go

1332
00:50:39,410 --> 00:50:37,920
through these historic Case Files when

1333
00:50:42,290 --> 00:50:39,420
you see these things stretching back to

1334
00:50:44,329 --> 00:50:42,300
the 40s and 50s if not earlier

1335
00:50:46,910 --> 00:50:44,339
um you almost create a revisionist

1336
00:50:48,770 --> 00:50:46,920
history of aerodynamic design and

1337
00:50:51,109 --> 00:50:48,780
principles if you believe that we had

1338
00:50:52,670 --> 00:50:51,119
this kind of Technology back then and I

1339
00:50:54,950 --> 00:50:52,680
know there's proponents of well the

1340
00:50:57,530 --> 00:50:54,960
Nazis had this incredible technology and

1341
00:50:59,329 --> 00:50:57,540
I I don't subscribe to that I I think

1342
00:51:01,309 --> 00:50:59,339
that the authors of those those books

1343
00:51:03,230 --> 00:51:01,319
and those ideas I I don't think that

1344
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:03,240
they've made their argument a solid

1345
00:51:07,069 --> 00:51:05,760
argument for that and as I always say if

1346
00:51:09,530 --> 00:51:07,079
they had that technology I think we'd

1347
00:51:12,109 --> 00:51:09,540
all be speaking German today yeah that's

1348
00:51:13,970 --> 00:51:12,119
a conversation myself and Graham Randall

1349
00:51:16,730 --> 00:51:13,980
and our colleagues have all the time is

1350
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:16,740
why do people keep banging on about this

1351
00:51:22,130 --> 00:51:18,960
Nazi and Danny I should I should add

1352
00:51:23,990 --> 00:51:22,140
that in addition to UFO history I'm a

1353
00:51:26,569 --> 00:51:24,000
huge fan of History my home's full of

1354
00:51:30,290 --> 00:51:26,579
antiques I'm also a huge World War II

1355
00:51:33,650 --> 00:51:30,300
historian fan uh amateur admittedly but

1356
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:33,660
uh and I've studied the Aerospace or the

1357
00:51:39,650 --> 00:51:37,440
uh Aviation designs of the the Germans

1358
00:51:41,690 --> 00:51:39,660
in World War II they do have some

1359
00:51:43,370 --> 00:51:41,700
incredible technology for the time but

1360
00:51:45,530 --> 00:51:43,380
it doesn't border on the science fiction

1361
00:51:47,030 --> 00:51:45,540
level that we're hearing these

1362
00:51:48,730 --> 00:51:47,040
proponents saying well they have all

1363
00:51:51,950 --> 00:51:48,740
these UFOs and they're all down in

1364
00:51:53,390 --> 00:51:51,960
Antarctica it's just it's a fantasy it's

1365
00:51:55,069 --> 00:51:53,400
a revisionist history that they've

1366
00:51:56,690 --> 00:51:55,079
created and I know many people like to

1367
00:51:58,549 --> 00:51:56,700
gravitate towards that

1368
00:52:00,349 --> 00:51:58,559
if you're going to make that you have to

1369
00:52:02,210 --> 00:52:00,359
have conclusive evidence to support that

1370
00:52:04,849 --> 00:52:02,220
contention and I haven't seen it in my

1371
00:52:06,589 --> 00:52:04,859
opinion no I agree completely great

1372
00:52:09,049 --> 00:52:06,599
stories but that's all they remain at

1373
00:52:11,450 --> 00:52:09,059
this point I agree yeah

1374
00:52:14,089 --> 00:52:11,460
um healthy MBS any known stories of

1375
00:52:15,950 --> 00:52:14,099
Native American law of flying arrowheads

1376
00:52:17,809 --> 00:52:15,960
in the sky that's a really good question

1377
00:52:18,549 --> 00:52:17,819
especially with me being here in New

1378
00:52:22,250 --> 00:52:18,559
Mexico

1379
00:52:24,109 --> 00:52:22,260
we have the Pueblo just north of me here

1380
00:52:26,630 --> 00:52:24,119
um I haven't researched that particular

1381
00:52:28,490 --> 00:52:26,640
aspect I would argue you probably would

1382
00:52:31,930 --> 00:52:28,500
find some if you looked uh hard enough

1383
00:52:34,490 --> 00:52:31,940
in in the records I will add though uh

1384
00:52:37,309 --> 00:52:34,500
hearing the description flying Arrowhead

1385
00:52:41,210 --> 00:52:37,319
there was a case in Dallas Texas in the

1386
00:52:43,130 --> 00:52:41,220
1950s where hundreds of people saw a

1387
00:52:44,690 --> 00:52:43,140
triangular object it was one of the

1388
00:52:47,450 --> 00:52:44,700
early accounts that made newspaper

1389
00:52:49,190 --> 00:52:47,460
headlines we had uh actually blue book

1390
00:52:52,190 --> 00:52:49,200
had some Blue Book record cards on this

1391
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:52,200
in hynix files and the newspaper

1392
00:52:57,049 --> 00:52:54,240
accounts and Witnesses described it as a

1393
00:53:00,530 --> 00:52:57,059
flying Arrowhead exactly what what we we

1394
00:53:02,870 --> 00:53:00,540
see there listed in the question and it

1395
00:53:05,089 --> 00:53:02,880
it was basically an arrowhead shaped

1396
00:53:06,770 --> 00:53:05,099
triangle that was moving erratically in

1397
00:53:08,510 --> 00:53:06,780
the sky I believe they even had it

1398
00:53:11,930 --> 00:53:08,520
tracked on radar and it was observed by

1399
00:53:13,910 --> 00:53:11,940
FAA Personnel uh at Dallas so but I

1400
00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:13,920
haven't explored uh going back into

1401
00:53:18,049 --> 00:53:15,540
ancient history

1402
00:53:20,990 --> 00:53:18,059
um admittedly there's only so much I can

1403
00:53:22,250 --> 00:53:21,000
do you know by myself but if if there

1404
00:53:23,870 --> 00:53:22,260
are people out there that are interested

1405
00:53:26,329 --> 00:53:23,880
in triangles that do have a working

1406
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:26,339
knowledge or have data related to that I

1407
00:53:29,809 --> 00:53:28,140
would highly encourage other people to

1408
00:53:32,210 --> 00:53:29,819
start branching off into these areas to

1409
00:53:34,010 --> 00:53:32,220
see what they can gather because no one

1410
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:34,020
person can do it alone but collectively

1411
00:53:36,910 --> 00:53:35,280
we can start Gathering a lot of

1412
00:53:39,230 --> 00:53:36,920
information from various sources

1413
00:53:40,910 --> 00:53:39,240
absolutely that's a fascinating to think

1414
00:53:43,309 --> 00:53:40,920
that they were seeing them that far back

1415
00:53:45,589 --> 00:53:43,319
as well so yeah great question

1416
00:53:47,630 --> 00:53:45,599
um a couple more uh

1417
00:53:50,089 --> 00:53:47,640
Jimmy the earthing says Mr Marla any

1418
00:53:51,890 --> 00:53:50,099
reports of Silent triangles in uh I

1419
00:53:53,410 --> 00:53:51,900
guess Southern California February March

1420
00:53:56,569 --> 00:53:53,420
95.

1421
00:53:58,069 --> 00:53:56,579
I'm sure there were because the 90s were

1422
00:54:00,109 --> 00:53:58,079
extremely prevalent with triangle

1423
00:54:02,270 --> 00:54:00,119
reports as you know Vinnie uh that's

1424
00:54:04,430 --> 00:54:02,280
where they really seem to explode uh

1425
00:54:05,870 --> 00:54:04,440
looking at the frequency data none that

1426
00:54:08,150 --> 00:54:05,880
I can think of off the top of my head

1427
00:54:10,250 --> 00:54:08,160
though uh I will I'll be honest with you

1428
00:54:14,329 --> 00:54:10,260
the last two years I've been immersed in

1429
00:54:17,089 --> 00:54:14,339
the 1940s 50s 60s and 70s Case Files but

1430
00:54:19,130 --> 00:54:17,099
uh I I would argue if you go to the

1431
00:54:21,650 --> 00:54:19,140
National UFO Reporting Center website I

1432
00:54:23,569 --> 00:54:21,660
I would be surprised if you didn't find

1433
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:23,579
silent triangles being reported in that

1434
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,400
area uh around that time frame and it's

1435
00:54:31,790 --> 00:54:28,079
interesting talking about California as

1436
00:54:33,410 --> 00:54:31,800
well uh in my my uh full lecture I

1437
00:54:36,290 --> 00:54:33,420
actually addressed triangles that had

1438
00:54:37,870 --> 00:54:36,300
prosaic explanations uh there were a

1439
00:54:40,849 --> 00:54:37,880
number looking at the historical record

1440
00:54:44,990 --> 00:54:40,859
uh one of the most uh prevalent was over

1441
00:54:46,910 --> 00:54:45,000
Madrid Spain in September of 1968 and

1442
00:54:49,130 --> 00:54:46,920
then he were talking before we went on

1443
00:54:50,690 --> 00:54:49,140
air that there's so many cases that you

1444
00:54:53,049 --> 00:54:50,700
just can't mentally keep track of at all

1445
00:54:57,349 --> 00:54:53,059
yeah I do remember this one for a reason

1446
00:54:59,450 --> 00:54:57,359
September 5th and September 7th 1968

1447
00:55:01,730 --> 00:54:59,460
tens of thousands of witnesses observed

1448
00:55:05,569 --> 00:55:01,740
a flying triangle in the sky over Madrid

1449
00:55:07,730 --> 00:55:05,579
Spain it was the largest uh publicized

1450
00:55:09,650 --> 00:55:07,740
triangle case that I've ever found it

1451
00:55:11,569 --> 00:55:09,660
was in I've got news news clippings from

1452
00:55:13,730 --> 00:55:11,579
all over the world that document this

1453
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:13,740
with a photograph the reason I remember

1454
00:55:19,970 --> 00:55:16,020
the date so well is it was on the fifth

1455
00:55:21,970 --> 00:55:19,980
and the 7th of September 1968. I was

1456
00:55:25,130 --> 00:55:21,980
born September 6th

1457
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,140
1968. so during this wave of sightings

1458
00:55:29,030 --> 00:55:27,599
in Madrid Spain uh that was my birthday

1459
00:55:30,410 --> 00:55:29,040
sandwiched in between those two

1460
00:55:33,410 --> 00:55:30,420
sightings

1461
00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:33,420
um but uh we have the official

1462
00:55:38,150 --> 00:55:35,520
documentation from the director of

1463
00:55:40,730 --> 00:55:38,160
meteorology in Madrid Spain as part of

1464
00:55:42,410 --> 00:55:40,740
The nightcap investigation file signed

1465
00:55:44,390 --> 00:55:42,420
by the director of the meteorological

1466
00:55:47,630 --> 00:55:44,400
Institute it was in fact a French

1467
00:55:50,809 --> 00:55:47,640
atmospheric weather balloon right and it

1468
00:55:52,510 --> 00:55:50,819
it is a triangle but it's interesting

1469
00:55:54,589 --> 00:55:52,520
when you look at the reports because

1470
00:55:56,870 --> 00:55:54,599
initially the reports say flying

1471
00:55:58,309 --> 00:55:56,880
triangle as you look at other reports in

1472
00:56:00,170 --> 00:55:58,319
the case File which is fairly thick

1473
00:56:02,450 --> 00:56:00,180
because again it garnered lots of media

1474
00:56:04,370 --> 00:56:02,460
attention some of the accounts described

1475
00:56:05,630 --> 00:56:04,380
it not as a triangle but an inverted

1476
00:56:07,549 --> 00:56:05,640
pyramid

1477
00:56:09,289 --> 00:56:07,559
and anytime you have this this thing

1478
00:56:12,109 --> 00:56:09,299
that comes to a point my first thought

1479
00:56:15,230 --> 00:56:12,119
is is it a balloon whether it's round or

1480
00:56:17,750 --> 00:56:15,240
whether it has facets to it and in fact

1481
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:17,760
they provided photos showing it we have

1482
00:56:20,450 --> 00:56:19,440
the signed I have the original signed

1483
00:56:23,990 --> 00:56:20,460
statement from the director of

1484
00:56:26,809 --> 00:56:24,000
meteorology and interestingly enough a

1485
00:56:28,549 --> 00:56:26,819
month prior to that they had a sighting

1486
00:56:30,289 --> 00:56:28,559
by the Soviet military and I know George

1487
00:56:33,289 --> 00:56:30,299
Knapp has referenced this to support

1488
00:56:35,990 --> 00:56:33,299
Jeremy corbell's triangle video

1489
00:56:38,390 --> 00:56:36,000
um but in my opinion what was filmed

1490
00:56:41,089 --> 00:56:38,400
over Riga Latvia was the exact same type

1491
00:56:42,650 --> 00:56:41,099
of balloon it it looks if you look

1492
00:56:44,750 --> 00:56:42,660
directly underneath it it looks like a

1493
00:56:47,630 --> 00:56:44,760
triangle it is in fact an inverted

1494
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:47,640
pyramid that is shiny semi-transparent

1495
00:56:51,530 --> 00:56:49,680
and it just if it looks like a duck

1496
00:56:54,770 --> 00:56:51,540
quacks like a duck it probably is a duck

1497
00:56:58,069 --> 00:56:54,780
and so in that in those particular cases

1498
00:56:59,569 --> 00:56:58,079
those were explained and referencing uh

1499
00:57:02,150 --> 00:56:59,579
Southern California

1500
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:02,160
during the development of the B2 stealth

1501
00:57:07,970 --> 00:57:04,799
bomber UFO researchers at the time were

1502
00:57:12,010 --> 00:57:07,980
getting reports of Silent or near silent

1503
00:57:15,049 --> 00:57:12,020
batwing shaped UFOs and it wasn't until

1504
00:57:16,910 --> 00:57:15,059
years later when it was Declassified the

1505
00:57:18,829 --> 00:57:16,920
B2 came out and we found out that they

1506
00:57:21,530 --> 00:57:18,839
were actually doing test flights over

1507
00:57:23,150 --> 00:57:21,540
the California airspace areas there and

1508
00:57:25,370 --> 00:57:23,160
that's what people were in fact seeing

1509
00:57:27,589 --> 00:57:25,380
so I think as researchers we we need to

1510
00:57:30,230 --> 00:57:27,599
call out those ifos just as much as we

1511
00:57:31,730 --> 00:57:30,240
call out the UFOs because admittedly

1512
00:57:33,289 --> 00:57:31,740
there are Skeptics that say you look at

1513
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:33,299
every case and you immediately jump to

1514
00:57:37,490 --> 00:57:35,280
extraterrestrial well I don't for those

1515
00:57:39,470 --> 00:57:37,500
that know me but we do I think need to

1516
00:57:42,109 --> 00:57:39,480
call out the ifos when we do find them

1517
00:57:45,410 --> 00:57:42,119
completely agree yeah

1518
00:57:48,170 --> 00:57:45,420
um last question here is from madhav is

1519
00:57:49,789 --> 00:57:48,180
it possible excuse me is it possible to

1520
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,799
determine or hint to the physics that is

1521
00:57:53,569 --> 00:57:51,839
used by the Triangular craft do the

1522
00:57:56,089 --> 00:57:53,579
smaller ones exhibit any different

1523
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:56,099
characteristics from the big ones really

1524
00:58:01,609 --> 00:57:58,799
good question I mean the the devil's in

1525
00:58:04,069 --> 00:58:01,619
the details to to the question there

1526
00:58:05,569 --> 00:58:04,079
um I'm not a physicist so I I leave that

1527
00:58:07,430 --> 00:58:05,579
to people that are way smarter than

1528
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:07,440
myself I'm a historian and a researcher

1529
00:58:11,569 --> 00:58:10,079
but I'm not a physicist so if if there

1530
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:11,579
are any physicists out there that want

1531
00:58:15,289 --> 00:58:13,680
to collaboratively work together I'm

1532
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:15,299
more than happy to share my data with

1533
00:58:19,069 --> 00:58:17,520
them as far as the smaller craft

1534
00:58:21,770 --> 00:58:19,079
exhibiting different characteristics

1535
00:58:24,170 --> 00:58:21,780
they seem to exhibit very similar

1536
00:58:27,170 --> 00:58:24,180
characteristics in the sense that they

1537
00:58:29,650 --> 00:58:27,180
can hover their silent or near silent

1538
00:58:32,750 --> 00:58:29,660
they can rapidly accelerate away

1539
00:58:34,789 --> 00:58:32,760
they seem to move oftentimes with

1540
00:58:36,289 --> 00:58:34,799
non-linear motion one of the

1541
00:58:37,849 --> 00:58:36,299
characteristics that I outlined that

1542
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:37,859
I've seen with the smaller objects as

1543
00:58:41,750 --> 00:58:40,079
well as the larger ones is this what I

1544
00:58:44,270 --> 00:58:41,760
call a radic movement that was the best

1545
00:58:46,069 --> 00:58:44,280
term I could use because in the vertical

1546
00:58:48,890 --> 00:58:46,079
plane sometimes these objects are

1547
00:58:52,730 --> 00:58:48,900
reported to move in a stair step

1548
00:58:55,309 --> 00:58:52,740
manner like this and in in in the

1549
00:58:56,390 --> 00:58:55,319
horizontal perspective as the object's

1550
00:58:58,730 --> 00:58:56,400
moving

1551
00:59:00,289 --> 00:58:58,740
they'll zigzag many of the reports state

1552
00:59:03,049 --> 00:59:00,299
that the object was zigzagging left

1553
00:59:06,230 --> 00:59:03,059
right left right as it departed to the

1554
00:59:08,270 --> 00:59:06,240
South or the North and so something

1555
00:59:10,849 --> 00:59:08,280
again that does not seem suggestive of

1556
00:59:13,490 --> 00:59:10,859
conventional aircraft or conventional

1557
00:59:15,049 --> 00:59:13,500
jet propulsion uh so to the question

1558
00:59:17,510 --> 00:59:15,059
there's clearly some other type of

1559
00:59:19,609 --> 00:59:17,520
physics being employed here what that is

1560
00:59:22,910 --> 00:59:19,619
uh again I would have to resort to the

1561
00:59:24,589 --> 00:59:22,920
physicists and likewise uh Vinnie uh I

1562
00:59:26,390 --> 00:59:24,599
often get questioned about well what do

1563
00:59:28,130 --> 00:59:26,400
you think about the UFO videos or

1564
00:59:29,569 --> 00:59:28,140
photographs that are circulating on the

1565
00:59:31,370 --> 00:59:29,579
internet

1566
00:59:32,990 --> 00:59:31,380
um I don't get excited by those I think

1567
00:59:35,270 --> 00:59:33,000
looking at YouTube videos as

1568
00:59:35,870 --> 00:59:35,280
entertainment it's not research

1569
00:59:38,210 --> 00:59:35,880
um

1570
00:59:39,890 --> 00:59:38,220
but I'm not a photo video analyst people

1571
00:59:41,569 --> 00:59:39,900
send me photos and videos all the time

1572
00:59:43,789 --> 00:59:41,579
and say what do you think

1573
00:59:45,530 --> 00:59:43,799
I can give you my opinion but I'm not a

1574
00:59:47,990 --> 00:59:45,540
photo video expert you know I have to

1575
00:59:50,450 --> 00:59:48,000
stay within my Lane if you want an

1576
00:59:52,130 --> 00:59:50,460
expert to evaluate this I would be happy

1577
00:59:54,230 --> 00:59:52,140
to give you the name of an individual

1578
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:54,240
and then let you have that dialogue with

1579
00:59:58,089 --> 00:59:55,920
them but that's just not my area of

1580
00:59:59,930 --> 00:59:58,099
expertise you know unlike some

1581
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:59,940
pseudo-researchers out there that I like

1582
01:00:02,870 --> 01:00:01,200
to call

1583
01:00:04,730 --> 01:00:02,880
um I don't profess to be an expert on

1584
01:00:06,109 --> 01:00:04,740
everything no

1585
01:00:07,849 --> 01:00:06,119
and I'm gonna say I might get sent

1586
01:00:09,589 --> 01:00:07,859
videos all the time and

1587
01:00:11,390 --> 01:00:09,599
yeah it's the same thing I give my

1588
01:00:12,950 --> 01:00:11,400
opinion I do have some friends who have

1589
01:00:15,109 --> 01:00:12,960
forensic software and are able to do

1590
01:00:17,450 --> 01:00:15,119
that and I happily pass it to them but

1591
01:00:19,430 --> 01:00:17,460
absolutely absolutely yeah again there's

1592
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:19,440
only so much each one of us can do but

1593
01:00:22,370 --> 01:00:20,880
it's much like I work in the medical

1594
01:00:24,890 --> 01:00:22,380
field it's like the medical field you

1595
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,900
have Specialists you know if you think

1596
01:00:28,010 --> 01:00:26,400
you you have suspicion of cancer you

1597
01:00:30,410 --> 01:00:28,020
don't go to a Cardiologist you go to an

1598
01:00:31,849 --> 01:00:30,420
oncologist and likewise if you have a

1599
01:00:33,230 --> 01:00:31,859
heart condition you don't go just to

1600
01:00:34,490 --> 01:00:33,240
your primary care doc you probably want

1601
01:00:37,010 --> 01:00:34,500
to schedule an appointment with your

1602
01:00:38,990 --> 01:00:37,020
cardiologist so I think we all have our

1603
01:00:40,250 --> 01:00:39,000
areas of expertise and I think we need

1604
01:00:43,130 --> 01:00:40,260
to be careful when we start making

1605
01:00:46,309 --> 01:00:43,140
opinions when we really don't have the

1606
01:00:48,230 --> 01:00:46,319
the scientific Acumen or you know the

1607
01:00:49,490 --> 01:00:48,240
the knowledge base to really weigh in on

1608
01:00:51,770 --> 01:00:49,500
that I think we need to be honest with

1609
01:00:53,150 --> 01:00:51,780
ourselves and say you know what I don't

1610
01:00:55,490 --> 01:00:53,160
have enough information to really give

1611
01:00:58,370 --> 01:00:55,500
you an honest opinion I recommend you

1612
01:01:00,289 --> 01:00:58,380
talk to this individual yeah excellent

1613
01:01:01,789 --> 01:01:00,299
that's great listen just before we

1614
01:01:03,470 --> 01:01:01,799
finish this has worked out quite well as

1615
01:01:05,270 --> 01:01:03,480
we've just hit the hour mark now

1616
01:01:07,130 --> 01:01:05,280
obviously we mentioned at the start that

1617
01:01:08,690 --> 01:01:07,140
this is your last interview probably for

1618
01:01:10,370 --> 01:01:08,700
the year you know I think a lot of

1619
01:01:12,289 --> 01:01:10,380
people will be sad to see you go from

1620
01:01:13,849 --> 01:01:12,299
from the scene but I'm sure you'll be

1621
01:01:15,109 --> 01:01:13,859
back next year where can where can

1622
01:01:16,789 --> 01:01:15,119
people keep up with what you're going to

1623
01:01:18,770 --> 01:01:16,799
be doing for the rest of the year yeah

1624
01:01:22,510 --> 01:01:18,780
well probably my website Vinnie and

1625
01:01:28,789 --> 01:01:26,630
www.davidmarlerufo.com uh I I I'm my

1626
01:01:30,410 --> 01:01:28,799
webmaster and my researcher I I you know

1627
01:01:33,770 --> 01:01:30,420
I do everything myself I don't have a

1628
01:01:36,470 --> 01:01:33,780
staff so uh I I it's woefully uh in need

1629
01:01:38,329 --> 01:01:36,480
of being updated my website but as

1630
01:01:41,150 --> 01:01:38,339
certain things do develop I'll share

1631
01:01:42,770 --> 01:01:41,160
that with you but uh as Vinnie mentioned

1632
01:01:44,990 --> 01:01:42,780
uh you know there's only so much time in

1633
01:01:47,270 --> 01:01:45,000
the day between work family UFOs and

1634
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:47,280
interviews and uh I've had a couple

1635
01:01:51,650 --> 01:01:48,960
requests to write some forwards to books

1636
01:01:53,630 --> 01:01:51,660
which I've been engaged in but the the

1637
01:01:56,390 --> 01:01:53,640
main thing that I've been focused on is

1638
01:01:59,150 --> 01:01:56,400
uh data acquisition because

1639
01:02:00,890 --> 01:01:59,160
as you saw evidenced by the cases I

1640
01:02:03,470 --> 01:02:00,900
shared with you just a small handful an

1641
01:02:05,089 --> 01:02:03,480
example those were cases I found as a

1642
01:02:07,910 --> 01:02:05,099
result of getting the nightcap kufos

1643
01:02:09,490 --> 01:02:07,920
Case Files now I have this incredible

1644
01:02:12,049 --> 01:02:09,500
foreign collection of material from

1645
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:12,059
Antonio's later this year and we're

1646
01:02:16,730 --> 01:02:13,920
actually working on the logistics of

1647
01:02:19,970 --> 01:02:16,740
Transportation right now as we speak

1648
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:19,980
um Philip mantle in the UK is going to

1649
01:02:23,750 --> 01:02:21,599
be shipping his entire collection of

1650
01:02:27,349 --> 01:02:23,760
case files and materials that cover 45

1651
01:02:28,789 --> 01:02:27,359
years uh here to Albuquerque because

1652
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,799
ultimately this collection will go to

1653
01:02:32,690 --> 01:02:31,200
the university of uh New Mexico here in

1654
01:02:34,609 --> 01:02:32,700
Albuquerque who I have a great working

1655
01:02:36,529 --> 01:02:34,619
relationship they want to be able to

1656
01:02:38,089 --> 01:02:36,539
pervert preserve all of this data and

1657
01:02:40,730 --> 01:02:38,099
information historical material for

1658
01:02:42,289 --> 01:02:40,740
future Generations which admittedly

1659
01:02:44,569 --> 01:02:42,299
right now we're at a Crossroads as it

1660
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:44,579
relates to the subject UFOs are

1661
01:02:51,049 --> 01:02:48,000
mainstream it's no longer Fringe and so

1662
01:02:52,970 --> 01:02:51,059
I think historians today in 10 years 20

1663
01:02:54,890 --> 01:02:52,980
years from now are going to want to look

1664
01:02:57,410 --> 01:02:54,900
back at that history because right now

1665
01:02:59,089 --> 01:02:57,420
uh the official statements made by the

1666
01:03:00,950 --> 01:02:59,099
US intelligence they're not touching on

1667
01:03:02,870 --> 01:03:00,960
it the narrative the prevailing

1668
01:03:04,970 --> 01:03:02,880
narrative is it all started with the

1669
01:03:06,890 --> 01:03:04,980
Nimitz incident in 2004 moving forward

1670
01:03:08,690 --> 01:03:06,900
and of course you and your audience many

1671
01:03:11,329 --> 01:03:08,700
know that that's not the case we have

1672
01:03:14,630 --> 01:03:11,339
seven and a half decades worth of

1673
01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:14,640
Civilian military Case Files worldwide

1674
01:03:19,730 --> 01:03:17,220
and now this being the 75th anniversary

1675
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:19,740
of the Modern Age of UFOs here in 2022

1676
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:22,400
75 years ago right Kenneth Arnold cited

1677
01:03:26,210 --> 01:03:25,200
I say now more than ever history is

1678
01:03:28,309 --> 01:03:26,220
important

1679
01:03:29,630 --> 01:03:28,319
yeah absolutely well listen this has

1680
01:03:30,770 --> 01:03:29,640
been an absolutely fascinating

1681
01:03:32,510 --> 01:03:30,780
conversation

1682
01:03:35,029 --> 01:03:32,520
um I'd love to stay in touch you know I

1683
01:03:36,529 --> 01:03:35,039
won't pester you I promise um but not at

1684
01:03:38,690 --> 01:03:36,539
all yeah be good because you know in a

1685
01:03:40,069 --> 01:03:38,700
year or two uh we do plan on coming out

1686
01:03:41,089 --> 01:03:40,079
to the US and meeting up with a lot of

1687
01:03:43,609 --> 01:03:41,099
people and like we said earlier

1688
01:03:45,529 --> 01:03:43,619
networking is great so you know be good

1689
01:03:47,569 --> 01:03:45,539
to stay in touch but yeah and Jenny

1690
01:03:49,010 --> 01:03:47,579
yourself and your colleagues as well as

1691
01:03:50,450 --> 01:03:49,020
anyone that's listening if you're ever

1692
01:03:52,849 --> 01:03:50,460
coming through New Mexico the

1693
01:03:55,490 --> 01:03:52,859
Albuquerque area I do make this room

1694
01:03:56,690 --> 01:03:55,500
open for serious researchers so if you'd

1695
01:03:57,950 --> 01:03:56,700
like to come and see the collection if

1696
01:03:59,690 --> 01:03:57,960
you happen to be making your way through

1697
01:04:01,849 --> 01:03:59,700
here if not if there's information

1698
01:04:04,250 --> 01:04:01,859
you're looking for feel free to reach

1699
01:04:06,049 --> 01:04:04,260
reach me through my website uh as I

1700
01:04:07,730 --> 01:04:06,059
mentioned I try to fulfill data requests

1701
01:04:09,710 --> 01:04:07,740
when I can so if there's any information

1702
01:04:12,170 --> 01:04:09,720
I can scan an email to you I'm more than

1703
01:04:14,390 --> 01:04:12,180
happy to do that that's wonderful thank

1704
01:04:15,650 --> 01:04:14,400
you I've popped the uh the description

1705
01:04:16,970 --> 01:04:15,660
in the description below I've popped

1706
01:04:19,849 --> 01:04:16,980
your website so people can always come

1707
01:04:22,549 --> 01:04:19,859
back and find it there but yeah thank

1708
01:04:24,650 --> 01:04:22,559
you so much David and thank you I really

1709
01:04:25,849 --> 01:04:24,660
appreciate it thank you to everybody in

1710
01:04:28,490 --> 01:04:25,859
the live chat and for all the great

1711
01:04:30,410 --> 01:04:28,500
questions always appreciated

1712
01:04:31,730 --> 01:04:30,420
um I'm gonna be back sometime in the

1713
01:04:32,930 --> 01:04:31,740
week but you can find me on all my

1714
01:04:35,089 --> 01:04:32,940
social medias to get all the information

1715
01:04:37,730 --> 01:04:35,099
of the shows I've got coming up but for

1716
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:37,740
now everybody uh I'm gonna say goodbye